Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

[BradWright]

Some people still think RED is a scam. :-)

Jim

The thing that frustrates me to no end is that people automatically assume that high quality is equal to high price. There's a substantial part of the population that actually feel better when they pay more and get less. They, also, won't evaluate a product that costs less because it's below what they expect to pay.

It's the burden you have carry if you want to disrupt the status quo.

[Graeme Nattress]

Roberto, indeed you could measure max and min illumination values that produce total black and clipped white. It's not the way that cinematographers generally work (I think - correct me if I'm wrong) with their light meters, but it does make a kind of sense. My only real issue with light meters is their inaccuracy - I measured mine to to be around 20% out.

Graeme

[Julio Quintana]

If I know what the/my noise floor lumen and the white clip lumen values are, then I will know the goal posts. I can then shove anything in between them as I chose, and know that I will be able to pull it out and stretch it as much as RedCode's magic allows (at 4k measured!).

This is my feeling too. It would be great to be able to tell a DP "You can get a great image up to 2000 ISO, but your highlights will always clip at X".

[Sanjin Jukic]

The thing that frustrates me to no end is that people automatically assume that high quality is equal to high price. There's a substantial part of the population that actually feel better when they pay more and get less. They, also, won't evaluate a product that costs less because below what they expect to pay.

Brad,

a good point and well said.

[Julio Quintana]

My only real issue with light meters is their inaccuracy - I measured mine to to be around 20% out.

Graeme

But at least DP's can use their light meters to go in and pre-light a room. Once they turn on the camera, they can use zebra stripes or false color to know if they got it exactly right.

[Roberto Lequeux]

HOLY SMOKES!!! This thread is moving fast... I didn't realize that so many where up at this hour. : )
I Quickly deleted my post to add to it, in hopes it would be better rounded before Graeme got to it... :P
Here it is, with one additional paragraph at the bottom:

I think it's amazing that the FIRST camera RED built - with a sensor upgrade - is right alongside the THE industry leading camera manufacturer's next-gen camera technology.

Well... second generation sensor and image interpretation, right? But does that make it any less astounding of a feat?

Julio, so what you're really asking is "if ISO800 puts mid grey where we want it, at what ISO would that mid grey be at clip, or in other words, how many stops above mid grey do I have?"

Graeme

Graeme, doesn't the white clip remain at a set "lumen hitting the sensor"?

I thought it was constant. If so I would think it is a great way to approach exposure, not that my opinion should yet count amongst the likes reading this thread.

If I can come in knowing what the/my noise floor lumen and the white clip lumen values are, then I will know where the goal posts are. I can then shove anything in between them as I may, and know that I will be able to pull it out and stretch it as much as RedCode's magic allows (at 4k measured!).

Don't light meters have a reflected light gun feature? I suppose the way to use this would then be to get your readings from the hottest and darkest and to do some math to adjust for filters... or perhaps they have meters that allow you to punch in filters into the meter itself doing the math for you. Then you can work within those with ratios in any way you'd like.

[Graeme Nattress]

But at least DP's can use their light meters to go in and pre-light a room. Once they turn on the camera, they can use zebra stripes or false color to know if they got it exactly right.

Yes - rough in with a light meter and then fine tune with the camera.

Graeme

[Julio Quintana]

Maybe a moderator should move this conversation to a new thread titled "ISO Concepts for Digital Sensors"? This is getting away from Jim's original post.

[Sanjin Jukic]

ARRI DRTC>>>Just to see and read what they (ARRI) are talking about:



The original ARRI document link >>>

[Sarah C.]

My only real issue with light meters is their inaccuracy - I measured mine to to be around 20% out.

Graeme

Wow. I own $1000+ in light meter technology (Minolta and Sekonic) and can measure light within (realistically) 2/10ths of a stop. I've used them for Ikegami, Sony, JVC, Panasonic, RCA(lol), etc.. broadcast cameras and also film: Zone System, chromes.. strobes, hot lights... you get the idea.

Seriously, Graeme.. where did you get your light meter... a garage sale? "20% out" sounds uncalibrated or broken.



~s