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  1. #1311  
    Senior Member Jimmy Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    You would pass up a camera which can shoot:

    2/3", S35 or FF35 for a camera which can only shoot 2/3"?

    Sensors are like haircuts. You can always trim but you can't add. Get the largest sensor you can afford/fit. It'll offer the most flexibility.
    Very eloquently stated.
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  2. #1312  
    Senior Member Justin O'Neill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    I don't see why the equivalent depth of field of shooting 35mm at around an f/5.6 is an "ENG aesthetic". Who decreed that the only acceptable f-stops to shoot 35mm at were f/4.0 and wider?
    Exactly David. I think there were other problems with the images on 2/3" cameras in the past and the deeper depth of field got blamed. I have seen gorgeous images with shallow DoF on the RED at 2k with a nice Angenieux lens at t2.2. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with the 2/3" Scarlet.
     

  3. #1313  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    I don't see why the equivalent depth of field of shooting 35mm at around an f/5.6 is an "ENG aesthetic". Who decreed that the only acceptable f-stops to shoot 35mm at were f/4.0 and wider?
    Précisément! Or, just for instance, this search turns up plenty of gorgeous photos that could easily be stills from a film. (Assuming APS-C is roughly equivalent to 35mm motion picture film.)
     

  4. #1314  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    I think that isn't correct. If I am not mistaken the bayer pattern has two pixels with green filters for each red and blue filtered pixel. So besides whatever loss there is in the debayering algorithm (which affects red blue and green), you automatically have half the red and blue color resolution.
    Which mimics the color resolution of the human eye very closely. Most 3 chip video cams also sub sample red and blue at half the green sample rate or less. You have to get to HDCAM SR 4:4:4 to get full color sampling.
     

  5. #1315  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    You would pass up a camera which can shoot:

    2/3", S35 or FF35 for a camera which can only shoot 2/3"?

    Sensors are like haircuts. You can always trim but you can't add. Get the largest sensor you can afford/fit. It'll offer the most flexibility.
    I would rather have 3k resolution at 2/3" than 2k when most of the time I would be shooting 2/3"/16mm format with wide range compact zooms anyway. The extra DOF and compact optics of the smaller format are a plus for me. Not to say I wouldn't love to have an FF35 Epic with a full complement of RED electronic lenses though. However that is not in the budget.
     

  6. #1316  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom L View Post
    Of course, there are other advantages to larger sensors aside from DOF. First and foremost is superior image quality.
    Right. If DOF were the only concern, then an $80 Kelly wheel and the will to use it (or a $2 iPhone app) is a better solution than replacing your entire camera package.
     

  7. #1317  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    Which mimics the color resolution of the human eye very closely. Most 3 chip video cams also sub sample red and blue at half the green sample rate or less. You have to get to HDCAM SR 4:4:4 to get full color sampling.
    true but it isn't inherent in the design as with bayer
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  8. #1318  
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    I think that isn't correct. If I am not mistaken the bayer pattern has two pixels with green filters for each red and blue filtered pixel. So besides whatever loss there is in the debayering algorithm (which affects red blue and green), you automatically have half the red and blue color resolution.
    Well, a RAW Bayer image not exactly the same thing as recording a 4:2:2 signal due to the debayering algorithm, which can make intelligent guesses as to the color of nearby photosites and thus compensate to some extent for missing information.

    Ultimately what matters anyway is how well a camera sensor or sensors can separate red, green, and blue information with a minimal amount of crosstalk which reduces saturation and color purity. The resolution of those separate channels after recording and post processing is sort of a separate issue.
    Last edited by David Mullen ASC; 12-10-2009 at 09:41 AM.
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  9. #1319  
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    does jim said anything about the RedOne sensor upgrade?

    Will be before or after the scarlet/epic release?

    Thanks

    g
     

  10. #1320  
    Senior Member Peter Moretti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    ...

    Ultimately what matters anyway is how well a camera sensor or sensors can separate red, green, and blue information with a minimal amount of crosstalk which reduces saturation and color purity. The resolution of those separate channels after recording and post processing is sort of a separate issue.
    And FWIU, three chip designs do a much better job of separating colors than single sensor mask designs. It has to do with the type of material used for absorbtion for the filters vs beam splittig for the prisms.

    But single sensor designs don't have the deep back focus requirement that three chip designs have, so cine and still lenses can be used.
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