Thread: 1 RR™ on-set workflow question

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  1. #1 1 RR™ on-set workflow question 
    Senior Member Roberto Lequeux's Avatar
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    Bare with me as I am in a turkey induced coma, on top of needing guidance. :)

    How would ONE RED Rocket be used best when you have a DIT and an Editor on set?

    I was thinking of having the DIT do a quick grade on RedCine-X with the DP and me on a wide, and maybe a CU or two shot, whatever it took to establish the overall look clearly. Then, somehow save those clips with a name that made them stand out as on-set "CDL" shots. Then the Editor could start cranking away at a rough "daily cut". After done with it, or close to being done, he could dump the rough grade look on all the clips in his cut. I don't know if a look can be shared across clips, sorry but I haven't had the chance to look into it.

    This would allow me to give my input on the look, which would help me grasp the impact of the images. Also, the rough cut would help me hopefully avoid under-coverage, and maybe find missing shots that complete the scene.

    But, RRs are not cheap, so considering we work on FCP since it is the most likely and almost a given... could the Editor work off proxies on a desktop and cut in flawless RT? Even if we shot 4.5k? (is 4.5k even supported in FCP yet? I dunno) And what is the cleanest way to have a laptop RR enabled? We would probably grade off the cards or drives then keep shooting, but the RAID storage (and on-line storage) would be in the "editor's cave" which might be a little ways away at times (minutes driving at most, a minute walk at best). We plan to have plenty of media.

    This might be a big discombobulated, hope not. If anyone can share with me and converse while helping me figure out a few things here and there I would appreciate it. I would like to know the workflow, not to micromanage it, but to understand it and be able to manage time and safety.

    Happy thanksgiving!
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    Crowing Lakes.com
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member jimhare's Avatar
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    I always run everything through the RR before editing, no matter what project I'm working on.

    If it were me, I would give the RR to the DIT.

    They could continually be running clips through for offline, and ALL of them will have your look applied.

    This is good for a couple of reasons:

    1. Your editor can work with proper QT files instead of fighting with Proxies, which is somewhat frustrating in my experience unless everything is straight cuts. Even then not so great!

    2. Every clip will have you look applied, not just a token clip or two.

    3. The DP can have a peek whenever they want to make sure everything is progessing correctly.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Roberto Lequeux's Avatar
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    Thank you. I will be very involved in post so I would like to understand the workflow options, pros, cons, trade-offs, etc as well as possible. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer Jim.

    I see. The DIT with the RR on a laptop with a breakout box or that one product from Maxx (and Peter M.) to keep him as mobile as possible. That is what I was hoping for so he can work in the video village tent close to set. But I wonder what it would take to also get the editor working "in the truck"/not too far. We were thinking that Red Rams for each (2) camera(s) might let us offload at lunch in case we move the set too far from the editing room. Backed up by a set of three or four CFs for each camera. Red Raids are not an option we want to consider at such temperatures.
    [Q#3] I haven't had the chance to read much about RC-X. Would the DIT would do a quick grade to every clip? Or can he dump a look onto all other takes of the same setup? Didn't they just enable that capability recently?

    One by one or not, that would mean the DIT would be running the clips through RedCine-X off the media, approximating the grade, changing the metadata, and THEN offload the clips onto the RAID which would be in the editing room. So...

    [Q#4] Would the DIT need momentary access to the editing desktop? And would editing only be halted while he sets up the off-load with a fast enough RAID (which we planned on)?

    [Q#5] The desktop would be the one that processes the off-lining QTs. So would the conversion be able to run in the background without affecting the (RT) cutting of scenes which were already off-lined?
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member jimhare's Avatar
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    I would have thought if you have a full time DIT, you would use cards exclusively. This allows you to be checking your footage constantly, not just once or twice a day (lunch.) If it were me I would have the cycling through the footage constantly, starting 15 minutes after you start shooting.

    Q3 - Yes, you can save looks and apply them to multiple clips. So grade once, then just apply it to all. This is done for each set up.

    The good thing is minor tweaks can be made. Apply it, then have a quick look at the curve etc. to fine tune as you go. It will save an RSX for each clip so those tweaks will come back if you bring the R3D back in. Very nice.

    Q4- only to dump finished QTs. Could even be done via Gb Ethernet as the clips become ready, constantly trickling.

    Q5- I disagree that the desktop is the best place to create the offlines. The DIT should be able to keep up with creating the offline QTs from RR. That's what it's for.

    This keeps your editor focused on the edit. Since Red Rocket X can continue working with new clips while transcoding, it can just be a constant stream.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Roberto Lequeux's Avatar
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    Oh, let me see if now I am following you: You say to keep large RAIDs with the DIT in the video village, and edit is done off-line out of a smaller storage solution in the desktop, with the footage in internal drives or smaller and inexpensive external RAID. This would allow us to look at anything at any time on-set and since the RR would be the workhorse processing the QTs it wouldn't matter that we would be on a laptop... right?

    So for backup we could then create two/three sets of single drive copies of all of the footage or back up to an LTO, at night every night. Or something else, but additional redundancy created at night.

    Am I understanding correctly?
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Manuel Wenger's Avatar
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    Take also a look at 3cP from Gamma & Density. It supports RR in V4.0 and helps in communicating color. You can grade Material with the DP, you can use common measuring tools like waveform/Vectorscope for grading, and after you did your onSet Grading you can generate color corrected low res files for editing with RR support in 3cP.
    Beyond that you are able to export 3D LUT which you can give to the colorist to give him a reference where to go.
    I did this on a recent project and had norhing but good experience with 3cP , and everybody was really happy about the way we where able to communicate with post production.

    best regards
    Manuel
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member jimhare's Avatar
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    Yes! You got it.

    The DIT should be able to take CF cards, copy them, and simultaneously make back ups while running the clips through RR.

    Maybe even write the QTs directly to the editing station via ethernet.

    Not the only approach, but certainly the one I would recommend.

    Keeps your DIT part of the shoot and your editor completely separate.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Roberto Lequeux's Avatar
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    Thank you Manuel, that sounds interesting. I know what you are talking about and the importance of LUTs. However I will just make sure the DIT, Editor, VFX house, and Finishing house (and mixer!) put their heads together and have a good workflow. I will be there to learn the details at that point, but right now I am just trying to figure out the production logistics.

    Jim, that sounds great. However Ethernet won't work for us as we'll be doing a lot of exteriors on the snow.

    I suppose a decent way to do that part might be to offload the QTs generated throughout the day onto the workstation at night? The editor would be a day behind at most. Perfect scenario for pickups on two-day locations. For single day locations that are far from lodging/base-camp we could be extra careful and get more coverage. Or if a location were far out and returning could turn out to be a big hit to the schedule, then maybe we can figure out a decent in-the-truck solution... so long as the truck has heat! ;)
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