Thread: different between distagon and planar, what is it?

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  1. #1 different between distagon and planar, what is it? 
    Hi guys i want to know what is different between Zeiss distagon and Zeiss planar.

    thank you
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    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakha mshvidobadze View Post
    Hi guys i want to know what is different between Zeiss distagon and Zeiss planar.

    thank you

    Planar

    Designed by Dr. Paul Rudolph in 1896 based on the double Gauss design (in 1817, C F Gauss described a telescope objective consisting of a pair of meniscus shaped elements, one positive, and one negative.) The design was 4 groups of 6 elements, and a flat field design. Symmetrical optical configuration producing low spherical aberration and astigmatism. The normal wide airspace separating the positive and negative elements in the double gauss design made a large amount of spherical aberration. Rudolph thickened the negative elements and reduced the airspace as much as possible, which corrected the spherical aberration and the sagittal/ tangential astigmatic aberration. Rudolph also inserted a "buried surface" into the thick negative elements of a cemented interface separating two type of glass having the same refractive index, but different dispersive powers. Not widely used until coating processes were available, due to light loss from the large number of transmission surfaces causing very low contrast. Due to it's complexity and high number of transmission surfaces, it really did not come into it's own until coating was developed. The planar was used as a base for lens derivatives, though in asymmetric form. Almost all the high-aperture lenses supplied on Japanese cameras are modification on the Planar..

    Distagon

    This is a reversed telephoto lens, consisting of a large negative lens in front of an ordinary lens. This allows it to obtain a short overall focal length with elements of a larger and more manageable size, helps design a system that is favorable for both high relative aperture and wild-angular field, and increased the back focal distance beyond it's usual magnitude, which give space for the mirror of a SLR. The downsides are that is must be physically large, and of complex construction to correct all the aberrations, making the lens more expensive to produce. Reversed telephoto designs are rarely over 2 inches in focal length, and then it is only used for specific applications. Compared to the Biogon, it has a larger circle of illumination full aperture, though softer when wide open, though it is sharper when stopped down. Rear element does not interfere with mirrors in SLR's

    source http://www.panix.com/~zone/photo/czlens.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Williams View Post
    Planar

    Designed by Dr. Paul Rudolph in 1896 based on the double Gauss design (in 1817, C F Gauss described a telescope objective consisting of a pair of meniscus shaped elements, one positive, and one negative.) The design was 4 groups of 6 elements, and a flat field design. Symmetrical optical configuration producing low spherical aberration and astigmatism. The normal wide airspace separating the positive and negative elements in the double gauss design made a large amount of spherical aberration. Rudolph thickened the negative elements and reduced the airspace as much as possible, which corrected the spherical aberration and the sagittal/ tangential astigmatic aberration. Rudolph also inserted a "buried surface" into the thick negative elements of a cemented interface separating two type of glass having the same refractive index, but different dispersive powers. Not widely used until coating processes were available, due to light loss from the large number of transmission surfaces causing very low contrast. Due to it's complexity and high number of transmission surfaces, it really did not come into it's own until coating was developed. The planar was used as a base for lens derivatives, though in asymmetric form. Almost all the high-aperture lenses supplied on Japanese cameras are modification on the Planar..

    Distagon

    This is a reversed telephoto lens, consisting of a large negative lens in front of an ordinary lens. This allows it to obtain a short overall focal length with elements of a larger and more manageable size, helps design a system that is favorable for both high relative aperture and wild-angular field, and increased the back focal distance beyond it's usual magnitude, which give space for the mirror of a SLR. The downsides are that is must be physically large, and of complex construction to correct all the aberrations, making the lens more expensive to produce. Reversed telephoto designs are rarely over 2 inches in focal length, and then it is only used for specific applications. Compared to the Biogon, it has a larger circle of illumination full aperture, though softer when wide open, though it is sharper when stopped down. Rear element does not interfere with mirrors in SLR's

    source http://www.panix.com/~zone/photo/czlens.htm
    Is one better than the other?
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    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramesh Jai View Post
    Is one better than the other?
    Distagon design required for wide angle lenses. Planar design for mid focal lengths.
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  6. #6  
    thank you very much, so as i understand, by the quality of the image there is not any difference between Planar and Distagon yes?
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  7. #7 Symmetrical 
    Senior Member Dan Hudgins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakha mshvidobadze View Post
    thank you very much, so as i understand, by the quality of the image there is not any difference between Planar and Distagon yes?
    The Cooke Speed Panchro Series I were like the Planar in all focal lengths from 24mm to 100mm. Because they were Symmetrical most of the aberrations cancel out.

    Retrofocus lenses like a Distagon are Asymmetrical and so require more elements are can show more rainbow fringe or lateral chromatic aberration. See the note in the retrofocus link below about Cooke and the Technicolor camera.

    Retrofocus lenses were introduced when movie cameras had reflex mirrors that got in the way for shorter focal lengths, before that short focus lenses of Planar type were used.

    With sensors rather than film though there is a problem with having the rays hit the micro-lens array over the sensor pixels at a steep angle, so most wide angle lenses are of the Distagon type to have the rays more parallel as they go into the sensor.

    For lenses over 100mm the Planar becomes large and heavy so Telephoto type lenses of Asymmetrical design are used. The Sonnar is Asymmetrical muti-element triplet type for high speed lenses. Tessar is a four element triplet type that is Asymmetrical.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss_Sonnar

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss_Planar

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessar

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrofocus

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephoto_lens

    If any of those lens types is made using a computer and the right kinds of glass and all the needed elements it can produce usable images.
    Dan Hudgins is developing "Freeish" 6K+ NLE/CC/DI/MIX File based Editing for uncompressed DI, multitrack sound mixing, integrated color correction, DIY Movie film scanning, and DIY Movie filmrecorder software for Digital Cinema. RED (tm) footage can be edited 6K, 5K, 4.5K, 4K, 3K, 2K, or 1080p etc. see http://www.DANCAD3D.com/S0620200.HTM (sm) for workflow steps.
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    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakha mshvidobadze View Post
    thank you very much, so as i understand, by the quality of the image there is not any difference between Planar and Distagon yes?
    Hi,

    A full lens set will have both, generally wide angle lenses have more faults, not really sure what you want to know.

    Stephen
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    Senior Member Matthew Duclos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Weiss View Post
    HAHAHA, The first result is this thread... What a vicious circle.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakha mshvidobadze View Post
    Hi guys i want to know what is different between Zeiss distagon and Zeiss planar.

    thank you

    I believe this is the answer Kakha was looking for...
    The Planar is smaller, faster, lighter, sharper and usable over a greater range of distances than the Distagon. (The Distagon is designed for more distant objects) The Planar also has a flatter field. The main benefit of the Distagon is its shutter, although it will give a bit more subject distance when retro-fitted for macro photography.

    The Distagon design allows a shutter at f4 which could not be used with a planar (even an f4 planar) The planar performs better at the edges than the distagon wide open.
    from another thread (no link sorry)

    There are limits to the Planar design, hence Distagon is preferred for wider lenses.
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