RED Scarlet for ENG work?

[M. Reilly]

Is anyone seriously considering using any RED camera for ENG work? To what extent do you plan on using it?

I'm of the belief (after reading some workflow posts) that the workflow is no good for time-critical news or the like. Also, I don't think RED will be manufacturing any ENG add-ons like on-camera mic/light mounting hardware.

Am I right in believing that ENG shooters are the bastard children of the "RED revolution?"

I am still somewhat optimistic about the fixed Scarlet.

[Eki Halkka]

I'm of the belief (after reading some workflow posts) that the workflow is no good for time-critical news or the like.

Well, you can just copy the files from the camera and start editing... so it's not that hard.

Scarlets are supposed to do 1080p processed in-camera, in addition to the raw recording, so even if your software doesn't directly support red's raw files, it will probably support red's 1080p.

[Steve Gibby]

Electronic News Gathering (ENG) hasn't been a significant part of RED One production for obvious reasons - the need for RAW to RGB rendering, quick turnarounds, tight deadlines, etc. But RED One has been used widely in Electronic Field Production (EFP), specifically non-hardlined EFP, and quite often that involves hybrid style camera setups and usage techniques - lightweight camera setups, 35mm stills lenses (sometimes B4 lenses too), eye focusing, no matte boxes (screw-on filters), no follow focuses, etc. Some examples of genres using hybrid RED setups are: adventure travel, alternative sports, some music productions, wildlife, nature, some aerials, some underwater, many documentaries, stock footage, and many more genres.

If the option for selectable 1080p RGB recording makes it into the final specifications for the DSMC cameras, and its in a codec that can be edited quickly in ENG editing systems, thus enabling quick turnaround ENG production, then by all means combination news photographers/motion shooters could put those DSMC cameras to good use.

Yes, the fixed lens Scarlet may turn out to be a very good EFP style (especially non-hardlined) and ENG-style camera - especially if it has a selectable RGB recording option. Especially of RED also makes the 2x extender and wide converter lenses they talked about, which can be easily added and removed from the fixed lens.

ENG is the bastard child of RED - but hybrid and EFP production (especially non-hardlined) have been, are now, and will continue to be done widely with RED One - and even more so with Epic and Scarlet to come.

For my take on RED One use in various types of EFP and ENG production, visit my sticky at the top of this forum.

[James Brundige]

Electronic News Gathering (ENG) hasn't been a significant part of RED One production for obvious reasons - the need for RAW to RGB rendering, quick turnarounds, tight deadlines, etc. But RED One has been used widely in Electronic Field Production (EFP), specifically non-hardlined EFP, and quite often that involves hybrid style camera setups and usage techniques - lightweight camera setups, 35mm stills lenses (sometimes B4 lenses too), eye focusing, no matte boxes (screw-on filters), no follow focuses, etc. Some examples of genres using hybrid RED setups are: adventure travel, alternative sports, some music productions, wildlife, nature, some aerials, some underwater, many documentaries, stock footage, and many more genres.

I've sold my B4 lenses and use a selection of Nikons for nature and doc shooting. I do miss the built in zoom motor in the Fujinon. Have you found any solutions for zooming your Nikon lenses, which is impossible to do smoothly by hand?

[Steve Gibby]

I've sold my B4 lenses and use a selection of Nikons for nature and doc shooting. I do miss the built in zoom motor in the Fujinon. Have you found any solutions for zooming your Nikon lenses, which is impossible to do smoothly by hand?

I've sold my B4 lenses too. I own the Red B4 adaptor, and I simply rent B4 lenses if I need them.

I zoom 35mm still lenses on Red by hand. With practice it goes quite well. I rarely zoom during a shot, so a smooth zoom isn't often needed - but I can zoom smoothly during a shot if necessary. For mobile hybrid and EFP work with Red, I mostly use my 35mm still zooms as variable primes, for quick re-framing, then hitting record.

I did experiment for some time with adapting a servo-zoom unit I cannibalized from a Fujinon EFP/ENG zoom to my Nikon 50-300 f4.5 AIS zoom, with pretty good results. The Fujinon servo-zoom was powered by a hirose to LEMO cable I got from Red, plugged into the 12v auxiliary bus on the smart side of Red.

I'm guessing (and hoping) that using the new Red Electronic Lenses will eliminate the need for an external servo-zoom or adapted Micro Force motor. We'll see...:)

[James Brundige]

I've sold my B4 lenses too. I own the Red B4 adaptor, and I simply rent B4 lenses if I need them.

I zoom 35mm still lenses on Red by hand. With practice it goes quite well. I rarely zoom during a shot, so a smooth zoom isn't often needed - but I can zoom smoothly during a shot if necessary. For mobile hybrid and EFP work with Red, I mostly use my 35mm still zooms as variable primes, for quick re-framing, then hitting record.

I did experiment for some time with adapting a servo-zoom unit I cannibalized from a Fujinon EFP/ENG zoom to my Nikon 50-300 f4.5 AIS zoom, with pretty good results. The Fujinon servo-zoom was powered by a hirose to LEMO cable I got from Red, plugged into the 12v auxiliary bus on the smart side of Red.

I'm guessing (and hoping) that using the new Red Electronic Lenses will eliminate the need for an external servo-zoom or adapted Micro Force motor. We'll see...:)

I don't zoom often, but sometimes it's just the right move, starting on a detail or discovering one, or pushing in slowly as tears well up. It would be cool if Red could pull that off with the Redmote.

[M. Reilly]

Steve, do you have any hardware solutions you use to get your RED One to operate more like an ENG/EFP-styled camera?

Mounted shotgun mic? Light?

[Steve Gibby]

Yes, I do. I've attached four pics to this post - two pics of a straight non-hardlned EFP RED One setup, and two pics of a hybrid non-hardlined EFP RED One setup.

The shots of the straight EFP setup are old - taken in October 2007 - thus the lack of ET EVF mount (which I always use with the RED EVF), lack of a shotgun mic, and RED Cradle mounting of the drive and battery on the back. I've owned a RED B4 Adaptor since September 2007, and it's in use in those pics. The lens is a Fujinon 16x HD EFP/ENG zoom. What's also missing is a lens hirose to 12v accessory cable to power the lens servo-zoom.

I have more recent straight non-hardlined EFP pics with all those other accessories on the rig, plus shots of different lenses on it - Fujinion 22x7.3, Fujinon 13x4.5, and others. When I can I'll dig those out and post them.

I rarely use those kind of setups B4 lens setups on RED for a simple reason - it restricts me to only shooting 2k footage. Even if the project is destined for HDTV, in my experience it is better to shoot 3k on RED One. When you resample RED 3k footage down to 1080p it look great - much better than B4 2k footage shot on RED One.

Shooting 3k limits me to two lens options - cine lenses or 35mm stills lenses. Cine lenses are much to heavy for their focal lengths to be of much use in hybrid production. I use 35mm stills lenses - they are small, light, have longer focal lengths, and give me the ability to use screw-on filters - something I couldn't do with cine lenses. The last thing I want in mobile hybrid work is to wrestle with the added bulk and weight of a matte box and follow focus - thus the stills lenses, screw-on filters, and no follow focus use.

The other two pics are of one of my RED cameras setup for hybrid non-hardlined EFP work - sporting a Nikon 28-70 f/2.8 zoom (with screw-on filter package), Sennheiser shotgun in a Rode shock mount, Lite Panels Micro light, dual wireless mic system, ET EVF mount, and ET Shock Mount for the RED Drive. That setup weighs 21 pounds - a good weight for mobile tripod and shoulder held work.

I also have several ET Mantis Shoulder Mount units this setup can be put on. For this I just use the shoulder pad portion of the Mantis and use both hands on the Nikon lens like I would with a B4 HD zoom. Changing from the shoulder pad to tripod simply entails quickly removing the shoulder pad, then sliding the rig onto the tripod dovetail.

What you can't see well in those hybrid pics is the cheese plate I have on top of the camera, to which I run a simple bracket out to the smart side of the camera to go underneath the shotgun for support. The wireless mic receiver is mounted on the end of that bracket. The light is mounted on simple L-bracket I found at a photography store.

With Epic and Scarlet, both being smaller than RED One, even more modular, and in many ways more hybrid and EFP production friendly, and hopefully having RGB recording options, doing hybrid and EFP work should be much easier than with RED One.

All pics are of my RED 0008 - I own multiple RED cameras

[David Rasberry]

Nice setup Steve. How well does the B4 lens and adapter perform compared to the still lenses at 2k?

[Steve Gibby]

Thanks David...

The RED B4 Adaptor has excellent glass in it. When I've used top-level HD EFP/ENG zooms on RED One, shooting 2k naturally, the footage has been pretty good - certainly adequate for a 720p , PAL, or NTSC finish.

But when I've tested good still lenses in 2k on RED One, the resulting footage has been a fair amount more crisp. My guess on that is that even though the B4 Adapter is very good, the fact remains that the image has to travel through more glass to get to the sensor - thus a slightly softer image is generated. When using the 35mm stills lenses for 2k shooting, there is just less glass for for the image to travel through, thus a crisper image is generated. The X factor in this is that most lenses are a bit stronger in the center portion of the lens, thus a 2k crop in the center of a good 35mm stills lens is cropping down to the strong portion of the lens.

As mentioned in my previous post, when using 35mm stills lenses on RED One in Hybrid production, I invariably shoot 3k unless I absolutely need frame rates above 60fps, then I may shoot some 2k. The 3k footage on RED using good 35mm stills lenses is gorgeous - crisp, clean, etc. - and it resamples down to a 1080 finish exceptionally well.