Thread: what is the normal shutter speed for feature movies?

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1 what is the normal shutter speed for feature movies? 
    Member Gabriel Garcia Rosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Yonkers, NY
    Posts
    31
    i'm a young filmmaker learning my craft through trial and error and i am quickly becoming respected as a d.p. i have experiment with all speed's of the shutter and i'm enjoying the the affect of all of them but i must know what is the normal shutter speed for a feature movie?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    66
    Well if you mean on digital I'd guess 1/48...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member Charles Angus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,055
    Normally film runs at 24fps, with a 180° shutter - which would indeed be 1/48th second.
    Charles Angus Taylor
    www.charlesangustaylor.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4 50HZ or 60HZ????!!!! 
    Senior Member Ido Karilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tel Aviv, Israel
    Posts
    551
    All previous answers refer to ntsc land 60 HZ, if in pal land and running 24fps then 1\50 or 172.8 deg will be your base shutter!!
    KARILLA IDO
    OPUS DIGITAL LAB
    TEL AVIV
    ISRAEL

    http://www.opus-tv.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    632
    Quote Originally Posted by Ido Karilla View Post
    All previous answers refer to ntsc land 60 HZ, if in pal land and running 24fps then 1\50 or 172.8 deg will be your base shutter!!
    and if shooting at 25fps 1/50 will be 180 deg.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member Yousuf Abbasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,069
    Dumb question here, but: Why exactly is 1/48 the base shutter speed (for ntsc), and how does it relate to 180 degrees?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    1/48th at 24 fps comes from film, not NTSC.

    A film camera has a spinning disk that rotates in front of the film gate, with a pie slice hole cut-out to allow light to pass through and expose the film, when the solid portion of the disk rotates in front of the film, nothing gets exposed so the camera can advance the film to the next frame to be exposed when the open portion of the disk rotates again in front of it.

    The standard movie camera shutter "angle" is 180 degrees, i.e. the rotating metal disk is half-open (a circle being 360 degrees) or you could describe it as a half-circle.

    So at 24 frames per second, the film is in the gate for 1/24th of a second but only being exposed for half that time, thus 1/48th of a second.

    So a 24P video camera is often set with an electronic shutter speed of 1/48th of a second to match the look of the 180 degree film shutter angle. The video camera itself does not have a real 180 degree shutter angle because it does not have a physical shutter moving in front of the sensor.

    NTSC is 59.97 Hz because our power supply is 60 Hz. The ideal shutter speed would therefore be 1/60th of a second, which is a 144 degree shutter at 24 fps, but 180 degrees is within an acceptable window.

    PAL countries have a 50 Hz power supply so the ideal shutter speed is 1/50th of a second, which is what you get with a 25 fps camera and a 180 degree shutter. Or at 24 fps, it would be a 172.8 degree shutter angle in order to get a 1/50th shutter time.

    Ignoring the issue regarding safe shutter speeds and camera speeds to avoid flicker under AC discharge lights, as long as you are in the ballpark of the look of a 180 degree shutter, it's fine because motion blur -- which is what we are talking about -- is affected by how much movement there is. So for a shot of someone talking, it would be hard to see the difference between a 1/48th shutter time and a 1/60th shutter time, for example.

    What is generally desirable is to avoid the classic look of 50i or 60i (interlaced-scan) video which is often shot with no shutter at all, i.e. shutterless or a metaphorical 360 degree shutter angle. There needs to be some dark-light-dark-light temporal gaps in the motion sampling that a shutter can create to get closer to how a film camera renders motion.
    David Mullen, ASC
    Los Angeles
    http://www.davidmullenasc.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member Yousuf Abbasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    1/48th at 24 fps comes from film, not NTSC.

    A film camera has a spinning disk that rotates in front of the film gate, with a pie slice hole cut-out to allow light to pass through and expose the film, when the solid portion of the disk rotates in front of the film, nothing gets exposed so the camera can advance the film to the next frame to be exposed when the open portion of the disk rotates again in front of it.

    The standard movie camera shutter "angle" is 180 degrees, i.e. the rotating metal disk is half-open (a circle being 360 degrees) or you could describe it as a half-circle.

    So at 24 frames per second, the film is in the gate for 1/24th of a second but only being exposed for half that time, thus 1/48th of a second.

    So a 24P video camera is often set with an electronic shutter speed of 1/48th of a second to match the look of the 180 degree film shutter angle. The video camera itself does not have a real 180 degree shutter angle because it does not have a physical shutter moving in front of the sensor.

    NTSC is 59.97 Hz because our power supply is 60 Hz. The ideal shutter speed would therefore be 1/60th of a second, which is a 144 degree shutter at 24 fps, but 180 degrees is within an acceptable window.

    PAL countries have a 50 Hz power supply so the ideal shutter speed is 1/50th of a second, which is what you get with a 25 fps camera and a 180 degree shutter. Or at 24 fps, it would be a 172.8 degree shutter angle in order to get a 1/50th shutter time.

    Ignoring the issue regarding safe shutter speeds and camera speeds to avoid flicker under AC discharge lights, as long as you are in the ballpark of the look of a 180 degree shutter, it's fine because motion blur -- which is what we are talking about -- is affected by how much movement there is. So for a shot of someone talking, it would be hard to see the difference between a 1/48th shutter time and a 1/60th shutter time, for example.

    What is generally desirable is to avoid the classic look of 50i or 60i (interlaced-scan) video which is often shot with no shutter at all, i.e. shutterless or a metaphorical 360 degree shutter angle. There needs to be some dark-light-dark-light temporal gaps in the motion sampling that a shutter can create to get closer to how a film camera renders motion.
    Makes perfect sense (and pretty fascinating, too). Thanks David.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Member Gabriel Garcia Rosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Yonkers, NY
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    1/48th at 24 fps comes from film, not NTSC.

    A film camera has a spinning disk that rotates in front of the film gate, with a pie slice hole cut-out to allow light to pass through and expose the film, when the solid portion of the disk rotates in front of the film, nothing gets exposed so the camera can advance the film to the next frame to be exposed when the open portion of the disk rotates again in front of it.

    The standard movie camera shutter "angle" is 180 degrees, i.e. the rotating metal disk is half-open (a circle being 360 degrees) or you could describe it as a half-circle.

    So at 24 frames per second, the film is in the gate for 1/24th of a second but only being exposed for half that time, thus 1/48th of a second.

    So a 24P video camera is often set with an electronic shutter speed of 1/48th of a second to match the look of the 180 degree film shutter angle. The video camera itself does not have a real 180 degree shutter angle because it does not have a physical shutter moving in front of the sensor.

    NTSC is 59.97 Hz because our power supply is 60 Hz. The ideal shutter speed would therefore be 1/60th of a second, which is a 144 degree shutter at 24 fps, but 180 degrees is within an acceptable window.

    PAL countries have a 50 Hz power supply so the ideal shutter speed is 1/50th of a second, which is what you get with a 25 fps camera and a 180 degree shutter. Or at 24 fps, it would be a 172.8 degree shutter angle in order to get a 1/50th shutter time.

    Ignoring the issue regarding safe shutter speeds and camera speeds to avoid flicker under AC discharge lights, as long as you are in the ballpark of the look of a 180 degree shutter, it's fine because motion blur -- which is what we are talking about -- is affected by how much movement there is. So for a shot of someone talking, it would be hard to see the difference between a 1/48th shutter time and a 1/60th shutter time, for example.

    What is generally desirable is to avoid the classic look of 50i or 60i (interlaced-scan) video which is often shot with no shutter at all, i.e. shutterless or a metaphorical 360 degree shutter angle. There needs to be some dark-light-dark-light temporal gaps in the motion sampling that a shutter can create to get closer to how a film camera renders motion.
    makes perfect sense to me thanks david for explaining that.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member D Fuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    2,036
    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    1/48th at 24 fps comes from film, not NTSC.

    NTSC is 59.97 Hz because our power supply is 60 Hz. The ideal shutter speed would therefore be 1/60th of a second, which is a 144 degree shutter at 24 fps, but 180 degrees is within an acceptable window.
    David, I am constantly amazed by your generosity and patience in sharing your knowledge with the users of this forum. You have a knack for explaining things with remarkable clarity. Thank you.

    But you lost me on this point. Wouldn't the ideal shutter speed be 1/60th only if the frame rate were 30 fps (or 29.97)? (It seems to me I remember cameras like the Beaulieu R16 that did have a 1/60th shutter speed at 24fps being very prone to stutter in a panning shot.) I've always thought that longer shutter speeds were better (esp for reducing stutter) but perhaps I need to re-think that.
    David Fuller
    AirStream Pictures
    Auburn & Portland, ME
    www.airstream.pictures
    EPIC-M Dragon #1053
    Reply With Quote  
     

Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts