New RED policy...

[Roberto Lequeux]

It was bound to happen. Red has all the buzz they could dream of and more. I hope DSMC's firs iterations will blow our minds and that Red will continue to have a strong presence and continue listening on this forum. But more than that I hope that Red will press on, at least in terms of fps, DR, compression, noise and sensitivity and whatever else I am missing... oh, and prices. :)

[Andrea Monzini]

i think could be a good policy for Red One users.
But for people waiting Scarlet as first Red cam ... is not good.

I don't have enough money to afford Red One so i'll buy Canon 5D mark II.
Sorry but my patience (i followed Red announcements for years not months...) is finished.

I 'll be still Red Entusiast "Observer" of course.
Best luck for all your work.

Andrea

[David Wyatt]

I think the Apple model is pretty smart (seems to be working for them judging by their stock price!) - it's perfectly suited for the internet age where whole websites are dedicated to rumour & speculation about their new products. More often than not they're pretty poorly kept "secrets" but in the meantime Apple have achieved thousands of inches of free column space without lifting a finger. I also love their "one more thing" thing...this also seems to reduce grown men to a childhood-Christmas-time state (incidentally Red's "By The Way...3D" really reminded me of this!)

[Felix K.]

I can understand people's need to discuss release dates again and again.

There is one group who is already working, managing a business, being responsible for investment plans etc. They have been hooked by the announcement of a product that has a "price/capability-ratio" so surpassing that delaying other investments seemed to be a wise option. (Of course I speak of Scarlet/Epic here) Now, Jim explained why the original release dates may not be reasonable time and again. Plans changed. But (some) people were unwilling to change there investment plans and are still waiting, growing frustrated. That is certainly annoying for them, and everybody will understand that, but still these things happen and/or are necessary. Don't forget how young RED is and how steep the learning curve must be according to that. I'm happy that they take the time to incorporate as much recent knowledge into these new cameras as they can.

The other group in my opinion are the, let's say, more "independent" filmmakers with lower budgets. For them a Scarlet is like the first and only opportunity to shoot in a "cinematically profound" level (meaning high resolution, bitrates and dynamic range, post-pro options). They might not be as interested in announcements concerning RedRocket or Prime Masters and thus just see what ever news fall into the Scarlet/Epic cetegory. And as these have not been adressed as much in the last month, they might feel "held back". (And I still am thankful for everyone reminding me that good movies can be made every day with what is available to us now!)

There might be a third group, hobbyists and technical nerds (like me) who are simply marvelled by the possibility to being able to shoot pictures comparable to what they see on the big screen every day. And they will always wanna know more!! :) We would spent every free minute in RED's workshops if we could, watching the wizards brandishing there wands (Did that come out wrong somehow?! :D ). We actually enjoy every announcement, not that concerned about release dates (although we want to hold a Scarlet in our hands as quick as possible as everybody else) because we are well "info-tained" by what is written on this board every day.

So, take you time, RED Team and work the way that helps you to make the best product possible. That's what counts in the end.

2 cents out!

[Steven Caesare]

I can't help but think that this has much to do with people here who just couldn't keep a lid on themselves.

Watching the camera development process happen as transparently as RED has been was an amazing process. The involvment with the community was even more amazing.

Yet, despite the always-present disclaimer in Jim's signature, people became impatient and demanding.

It's too bad. I am not yet a customer... but definitiely a fan. And since day one I got the notion that the product was not going to be any further out than if it were developed behind closed doors, but instead I got to observe and even participate along the way.

Now it would appear some of that process will no longer be transparent to us, and the impatient forum-jockeys share much of the blame.

-Steve

[Jannard]

I can't help but think that this has much to do with people here who just couldn't keep a lid on themselves.

Watching the camera development process happen as transparently as RED has been was an amazing process. The involvment with the community was even more amazing.

Yet, despite the always-present disclaimer in Jim's signature, people became impatient and demanding.

It's too bad. I am not yet a customer... but definitiely a fan. And since day one I got the notion that the product was not going to be any further out than if it were developed behind closed doors, but instead I got to observe and even participate along the way.

Now it would appear some of that process will no longer be transparent to us, and the impatient forum-jockeys share much of the blame.

-Steve

Steve... there is a lot of truth in your post. Transparency is a good thing only as long as the troops fully embrace it, including the hard part (schedule). Some want us to be unconventional in all ways that include them in the process and understand that the schedule is a moving target "depending". Others like the sound of the concept but seem to revert back to "but you said and I need it now". It is easy to see why no company will try this transparency thing. It is very difficult to pull off. Our goal now is a modified approach, somewhere in the middle. We'll see how that goes.

Jim

[Meryem Ersoz]

The exception would be something we need a lot of customer feedback on (like Scarlet & EPIC)... but even then we'll try to get closer to completion before talking about it and asking for feedback.

Keep those exceptions coming...

There's no doubt that you have chosen the hard way, but direct customer feedback, with its warts and all, has done a great deal to fast-track improvements on RED products.

Knowing that someone is listening is huge.

[Jannard]

Keep those exceptions coming...

There's no doubt that you have chosen the hard way, but direct customer feedback, with its warts and all, has done a great deal to fast-track improvements on RED products.

Knowing that someone is listening is huge.

I agree. That's why we are taking a modified approach and not completely abandoning the philosophy.

Jim

[Alex Mack]

I think it would be very reassuring to know when you make big breakthroughs on camera development... even if the details are not given. Knowing if and when changes are occurring is very nice. Gives me a closeness to whats going on at RED.:couch:

[Scott C.]

I'm just an avid spectator of the marketing world but even I can appreciate the razor's edge that the company is walking with regard to the timing of the Scarlet announcement and their subsequent silence.

You announce early to capture the market's attention, but announce too early and you run two major risks:

1. The better positioned competition with similar products already in the pipeline either beats you to market or releases just after you with a much more mature product that kicks your butt in customer satisfaction.

2. The inability to meet an unreasonable timeline creates a backlash effect as seen here.

It is possible that the Red folks simply underestimated the hunger for a product like Scarlet when timing their announcement. I'd also bet that even this is a good thing because a hungry audience is more forgiving, and it is easier to recover from hype burn-out than it is to sell products to people who don't know that your company or product exists.

Creating a public forum like this one for market research is also a double edged sword if you lack the discipline to lock off your designs and go to production. The desire to implement new features can keep you in development indefinitely. I think every artist reading this can identify with that problem; Is this the final rewrite? Are we ready to lock picture?

I'm burning for a Scarlet myself, but I don't want one that is poorly developed so I am exercising my patience muscles. What choices do I have?

I have every confidence that the Red Team will make the best choices for the product and the company. Their track record so far is exemplary and most signs point to more of the same. Let us hope that they go 3 for 3 when Scarlet and Epic roll out.

Keep up the good work!