Stuttering image while Panning

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

I don´t agree at all.

We do colour grades of 35mm film as well as red on the same displays and projectors and you don´t see the strobing when using the film dpxs.

In the same way, most of the film print outs that i´ve done show the issue (if you are looking for it) while none of the film prints back to film had the problem i won´t deny you can have strobing with film but it´s not as usual).

[Chris Reynolds]

I have to agree with Macgregor here I have post 35mm for 15years and look and 35mm scaned to HD on a CRT Grade one almost every day. I also work with Red alot and have done an extensive amount of testing and posting over the last 18months as I own 4 camera's. You can get judder on 35mm but red it is much more obvious!


Cheers, Chris

[Sanjin Jukic]

I can see that a lot of people here should work more with RED1 and experiment daily.

Many of them are "bully" or a "half cooked" DPs in a different incarnation and mostly they are talking nonsense about RED1.

It's annoying to listen that sh**, I'm slowly getting fed up and boring about all that.

Now back to panning with RED1 that everybody should experiment and learn by yourself.

In general the panning speed should be very slow and done very carefully.

Also btw, I saw a lot of features shot on film that have panning speed and stutter issue.

The last famous examples of panning stutter was "Dark Knight", a blockbuster of the year 2008 that has extremely high tech people involved in production.

Just take BR disk and watch by yourself what I was talking about at 1080p plasma/lcd-tv or go to the cinema and see it if it is still playing.

At the end I'll offer to see the two examples of panning on RED1 done with Tokina 11-16mm DX wide angle lens @ 11mm.

One more thing:

1. Panning speed just in the case when you follow a moving object or a talent must be the same as an object's/talent's speed, otherwise you'll get stutter (digital or analog/film).

2. Panorama shots should be done with a very slow panning speed that can avoid any stutter (digital or analog/film).

Download here the two panning examples I was talking about (shot handheld with RED1) 25fps, 1/50 shutter>>>

[Evin Grant]

Could it be a PAL thing? Are you (MacGrgor, Chrisreynolds) shooting at 25P? I always find 25P/50I playback to be incredibly stroby and if you're going back to film at 24 then there may be some inconsistency with the rolling shutter that is causing this. Most of the time in the US when we see 24P it's either being played back at 48(24hz) or in a 3:2 pull down to 29.97 which has it's own uniquely ugly affect on the motion that may hide the judder your seeing. My observation is that most of the complaints about the studder are coming form PAL countries, and the ones OK with it (other than Sanjin) seem to be in the US.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I can see that a lot of people here should work more with RED1 and experiment daily.

Many of them are "bully" or a "half cooked" DPs in a different incarnation and mostly they are talking nonsense about RED1.

It's annoying to listen that sh**, I'm slowly getting fed up and boring about all that.

sanjin, sometimes your statements are just confusing.
you expect respect, so do it with others.

i did test a red last week with an ASC member..and i dont guess you become an ASC member by beeing a half cooked DP.

There a lot of powerful dop`s right now having big, big interest in shooting with red.

And i am really interested in understanding everything about and around RED, to "help" the DOPs shooting RED.

These kind of statements made Claudio Miranda go away.
In the meanwhile he made Benjamin Button...means: he was one of the most valueable sources in the net...and far far away from beeing a half baked dp

[Joe G.]

This "high contrast" situation suggests CODEC ISSUE to me.

What does Red have to say about it?

Will it be eliminated on the next generation of cameras?

[Roberto Lequeux]

What does Red have to say about it?

I have been hoping for a member of the Red team to post here.

[Sanjin Jukic]

sanjin, sometimes your statements are just confusing.
you expect respect, so do it with others.

i did test a red last week with an ASC member..and i dont guess you become an ASC member by beeing a half cooked DP.

There a lot of powerful dop`s right now having big, big interest in shooting with red.

And i am really interested in understanding everything about and around RED, to "help" the DOPs shooting RED.

These kind of statements made Claudio Miranda go away.
In the meanwhile he made Benjamin Button...means: he was one of the most valueable sources in the net...and far far away from beeing a half baked dp

Kaya,

everybody knows here that Claudio Miranda is a great cinematographer.

But also I'm a bit confused by following your reply to me here how Claudio Miranda has to to with my post on this tread or even RED1 panning "issue".

1. Or you just "wanted' to "blame" me for something I didn't do obviously.

2. Or you just wanted to "protect" your yourself... using Miranda's name or even ASC member (without his/her name) here for something totally different...

It sounds pretty funny for me this type of talking...

[Cüneyt Kaya]

nevermind.

[Dave Blackham]

One consideration about motion artefacts is that the sharper the image the worse the artefacts appear to the eye. Red images can be very sharp (lens and composition dependent of course) so motion artefacts can be very visible. I helped shoot some camera tests a while ago F900, AJ27f, 35mm, 16mm when HD emerged and the same issue cropped up then on the HD cameras when shooting progressive. At the time there was much debate about reducing depth of field to soften the back ground which was much of the concern as the subject was wildlife and pan speed wasnt controlable with some subjects, Just try asking a cheetah to run slower !

Is the consensus that the pan speeds for given arc and distance to subject seem to work OK in the American Cinematorgraphers manual ? if not how do we calculate pan speeds for S35mm digital cameras ?

Dave