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  1. #1 No build is safe anymore! 
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    By popular demand from most of my rental clients I'd like to point to some of the things they're complaining about (latest job was this Friday on the set of Hollyoaks):

    The Red one:

    -Freezing, both menu and during POST, often. very very very often. Codec errors, audio codec errors, green screen. THEY CREW ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE CAMERA, AND MORE EXPENSIVE

    -Not being able to reliably playback clips from camera after a problem, because playback IS too often a problem

    -Charger sometimes not charging batteries

    -The battery v-lock not "getting a grip"

    -The LCD sometimes turning blue monochrome or displaying strange colours during booting, and then staying like that, forcing a reboot and wasting up to 15minutes depending on the size of the crew (1 minute for every crew member stood like a lemon)

    -The ridiculous boot up time exagerating every problem further

    -The fact that all of the above occur with build 16.2.4,16.2.5, 17 and 18, making it totally useless for TV production environments in any serious way. Until recently b16 was my safety net. This Friday that changed.

    -Noise breaking down into nasty vertical stripes during low-light shots, instead of just noise (a desired look on a recent shoot)

    -The cost of five Red wingnuts


    Redcine:

    -waiting for an export and finding garbage output eight hours later

    -its lack of audio export options

    -its incompatibility with, er, most computers I try it on


    My personal gripes would also include:

    -The lack of a meta-data driven workflow, except from Cineform, making shooting RAW footage a drag, and much less useful

    -Fedex

    -The general air of secrecy around everything Red, making getting technical answers difficult, and partial answers more likely

    -Fedex

    -The proprietory, non-editable R3D format.

    -Fedup

    -The lack of uncompressed RAW output. Is Red using a non RGB colour space in the R3D? Whats the problem with RAW non white balanced uncompressed output?

    -Fedex

    -Customs

    -Lack of a hardware repair facility not involving the two aforementioned problems, meaning I'll find a third party to repair my cradles faulty cable rather than waste my time ever again contacting Red about any hardware problem that isn't related to the actual camera body.

    - The fact that as soon as Red release a camera that is "reliable", be it a much cheaper Scarlet or Epic, the R1 WILL BE OBSELETE, regardless of the R1s functionality

    - Not having time on set to log every error in detail

    - The fact that Red spend ANY time defending Panavision "attacks" (yawn) on Reduser etc, while my camera is being a B*****D!!

    What I do like:

    -The images (in good light), which do justify getting paid

    -Also, being able to fry an egg on the camera body after four hours in a lit interior and being able to warm my fingers on the rear LCD.. oh, hang on, that actually makes me scared..

    -my rep polo@red.com, but especially my soundboard brent@red.com

    - I no longer believe that something that gets so hot, will ever be fixed with software, although it may get more reliable. But my belief (call it blind faith), not just hope, thats things will get better, and that Red are working hard, keep me going. I NEED a reliable camera, hopefully Monstro and Full Frame, and at the best price possible to keep me onboard long term. The extra functionality and reliability (fingers crossed) will justify the extra money, the full R1 refund (although the dollar value has changed for me in a negative way) is definately FAIR (not generous, fair. The R1 IS a prototype. A good one that has proved a point) IMHO

    thats off my chest. Roll on next week.. but what build shall I use in the meanwhile? Where's my 18-sided dice..:wacko:
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  2. #2  
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    I agree with you on most counts, however:

    Quote Originally Posted by ronx View Post
    -Charger sometimes not charging batteries
    Don't run the batteries all the way down and this is far less of an issue.

    -The battery v-lock not "getting a grip"
    Have you got the latest battery plates?

    -Noise breaking down into nasty vertical stripes during low-light shots, instead of just noise (a desired look on a recent shoot)
    A Black Shade may have helped here.

    -The cost of five Red wingnuts
    I did want to single this one out - as it's a bit painful after you break your first one!


    Redcine:

    -waiting for an export and finding garbage output eight hours later
    Amen. But perhaps you should move to Metafuze or Premiere?


    -The proprietory, non-editable R3D format.
    Premiere Pro. Possibly Avid very soon, and possible FCP very soon as well.

    -The lack of uncompressed RAW output. Is Red using a non RGB colour space in the R3D? Whats the problem with RAW non white balanced uncompressed output?
    Camera RGB and Linear Light gamma at 5000K give you this. Make sure you're putting it in a 16-bit TIFF image sequence, though.

    - Not having time on set to log every error in detail
    Not really RED's fault, but the Write Log function helps.
    Cail Young
    Problem Solver
    Inspiration Studios, Melbourne, Australia
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  3. #3  
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    Don't run the batteries all the way down and this is far less of an issue.

    -usefull tip, I try not to :)

    Have you got the latest battery plates?

    -Who knows, 1xcradle and 1xbelt.

    A Black Shade may have helped here.

    -Thats what Red always say. Its never made a blind bit of difference to anything that I've noticed.

    I did want to single this one out - as it's a bit painful after you break your first one!

    -It was a metaphor actually


    Amen. But perhaps you should move to Metafuze or Premiere?


    -Yeah, Premiere, and buy Cineform Prospect 4k, I'm on it
    A long time ago in Red history someone compared Cineform codec to R3D, Jim said "Different products". Well, they sure are frankly.

    Premiere Pro. Possibly Avid very soon, and possible FCP very soon as well.

    -No, you misunderstand, I mean a RAW "meta-data" driven workflow. These programs don't have that, they're for offlining in my opinion.

    Camera RGB and Linear Light gamma at 5000K give you this. Make sure you're putting it in a 16-bit TIFF image sequence, though.


    -No it doesn't. A raw image is a greyscale bayer pattern. Its 1/3 the size of a TIFF, and consists of an unaltered array of values direct from the sensor/R3D. Once you debayer it, it becomes a TIFF, but that is not a RAW file.


    Not really RED's fault, but the Write Log function helps
    .

    -Whats not, the Write Log function, or the unreliable camera? I'm responsible for neither..
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  4. #4  
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    Hey Ronx,

    Sorry you have had a less than desirable experience so far with your camera. Maybe you have a faulty board in your camera or something cause I haven't experienced half those issues on my personal camera.
    However, I have worked with quite a few RED's on many different gigs I must say that not all are built equal. Some are downright rediculously inpredictable and not worth being on a professional set. Some are an absolute joy to work with and all create amazimg images which we can all agree. Maybe you should request an evaluation of your particular camera or call RED and talk to one of their support guys. They are great at trouble shooting issues.
    I hope your issues become minimal soon.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    Hey Ronx,

    Sorry you have had a less than desirable experience so far with your camera. Maybe you have a faulty board in your camera or something cause I haven't experienced half those issues on my personal camera.
    However, I have worked with quite a few RED's on many different gigs I must say that not all are built equal. Some are downright rediculously inpredictable and not worth being on a professional set. Some are an absolute joy to work with and all create amazimg images which we can all agree. Maybe you should request an evaluation of your particular camera or call RED and talk to one of their support guys. They are great at trouble shooting issues.
    I hope your issues become minimal soon.
    I know this. Mine was one of the "never much of a problem" ones. However, I had a loose sensor cable, leading to intermitant problems. It went back, got a full service an quality controlled. Came back with a rear record button that sticks and the v-shaped molding on the cradle had a split down the middle.

    Its been getting worse recently. The first thing it did on Friday morning was boot and hang. After a reboot we recorded a soundcheck, but it froze in Post. Two or three times during every new scene. Not funny.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Brent J. Craig's Avatar
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    Sounds like a sick camera. Send it back again.

    The only problem I'm seeing here is that some Reds won't boot if both an EVF and LCD are plugged in.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent J. Craig View Post
    Sounds like a sick camera. Send it back again.

    The only problem I'm seeing here is that some Reds won't boot if both an EVF and LCD are plugged in.
    Ouch this is pretty impressive to read that... it's like you are all speaking about an old car which need to be handled with care as well as tips and tricks ...

    Really make me afraid ...
    Could be nice to have an official statement one day regarding all this numerous glitches ...
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent J. Craig View Post
    Sounds like a sick camera. Send it back again.

    The only problem I'm seeing here is that some Reds won't boot if both an EVF and LCD are plugged in.
    I don't have an EVF
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent J. Craig View Post
    Sounds like a sick camera. Send it back again.

    The only problem I'm seeing here is that some Reds won't boot if both an EVF and LCD are plugged in.
    I don't have an EVF, running a hdsdi preview from the hdsdi preview DIN doesn't cause a problem does it?
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  10. #10  
    Sounds like hardware issues are at least part of the problem, for what that's worth. I believe Red has said they'll allow 3rd party debayers at some point, but I think it's not at the top of their list.
    -John Beale
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