Still Looking 4 REDs

[James Mathers]

Honestly, I think the market is at a point where we might see prices start to quickly drop on these cameras. In my opinion, there are just too many out there for the available work. Many RED owners may use their cameras for a pet project or two, but don't have any reasonable expectation of renting their gear out; so once the pink cloud dissipates, and they realize that they have a lot of investment just sitting there not amortizing, they may want to sell. When that happens in big numbers, the prices will drop quickly.
Maybe really early serial numbers like mine, #30, will keep a little extra value because of their place in line for Epic trade-in. However, I don't think later serial numbers, will be worth anything in this regard, when new ones can be had from RED with full warranties. Also of note is that RED now charges $1,250 to change ownership with only 90 days of warranty. Naturally, they would like to encourage the purchase of new cameras.
Anyway, those are just my random thoughts on the matter, but it is the market that will determine prices. In the meantime, I'm still looking for a few more REDs. Please e-mail me for more details if you have any interest. Mathers at DigitalCinemaSociety dot org

Please note: I don't often check for PMs, so e-mail is best.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
Digital Cinema Society President
Studio City, CA
James Mathers

[Charles Nader]

Interesting...Yes, I did make a mistake about the 10K R1 it was 11.3K.

yes, James...I agree. I can see their are 5K camera are out on scene...some will stay, some will shoot, some will go broke and then they will sell.

No, I didn't know that RED changed their policy's regarding transfership of 1.25K...it was $500 before wasn't it?

Some were sold for 12K...surprised? 5K savings not bad.

We just have to see how many more will come on the market!!!

[Darren Orange]

I personally have been paying solid attention to the market. Once the cameras came off the waiting list, I saw almost no more sellers of the camera. Which is kind of weird. I don't think you should expect the camera bodies to lose any value....but I do expect the extras will. People won't let the camera body for less or much less than list but they will the extras. I would push to buy new cameras and used accessories, thats safer anyways.

[Mickey Conway]

Good point Darren I totally agree with you.

[Anthony Gratl]

If what he heard was true, these were simply distressed sales that have no relevance whatsoever to the market as a whole.

Absolute nonsense stephen. Distressed sales have no relevance?? You mean bargain sales that occur because the economy is tanking and people need to eat have no relationship to the market? C'mon man, you're the one with the phd here. That IS the market.

Higher numbered REDs (say, those about 1500) in good condition would surely be very attractive at no less than $15,000. It makes no sense. Anyone wanting to buy an Epic could simply buy a RED One and make the difference between $17,500 and the price they paid.

It makes no sense? Technology will always be outdated and replaced in this system....making the old technology obsolete and cheap.....and the number of people who will buy an Epic in this economic disaster is dwindling every day......James' statements are absolutely correct. I almost think you're writing this stuff in an attempt to keep the prices high. Ain't gonna happen man. Sorry.
Although i will say that i've received no pm's on my standing 12K offer to buy a r1. Then again, not half the owners of r1's flock to this site either.

[Anthony Gratl]

If what he heard was true, these were simply distressed sales that have no relevance whatsoever to the market as a whole.

Absolute nonsense stephen. Distressed sales have no relevance?? You mean bargain sales that occur because the economy is tanking and people need to eat have no relationship to the market? C'mon man, you're the one with the phd here. That IS the market.

Higher numbered REDs (say, those about 1500) in good condition would surely be very attractive at no less than $15,000. It makes no sense. Anyone wanting to buy an Epic could simply buy a RED One and make the difference between $17,500 and the price they paid.

It makes no sense? Technology will always be outdated and replaced in this system....making the old technology obsolete and cheap.....and the number of people who will buy an Epic in this economic disaster is dwindling every day......James' statements are absolutely correct. I almost think you're writing this stuff in an attempt to keep the prices high. Ain't gonna happen man. Sorry.
Although i will say that i've received no pm's on my standing 12K offer to buy a r1. Then again, not half the owners of r1's flock to this site either.

[James Mathers]

Since I'm in the process of buying used cameras, I called RED just last week for clarification, and was told that the cost is $500 to inspect the camera, plus any repairs that would not be covered by warranty, then another $750 to facilitate the transfer of ownership, which would then give you 90 days of warranty coverage. I will say that when I checked last summer I was quoted the price of $500 per camera as CharlesN suggests. However, as Jim Jannard is fond of saying after all his posts: "Everything in life changes..."

James Mathers
Cinematographer
Digital Cinema Society, President
Studio City, CA

[Stephen Pruitt]

Well, Evolve, the fact that no one is getting offers to sell their RED Ones at $12,000 or $12,500 tells its own tale. And a powerful tale it tells.

I'm sure it happens (although I strongly doubt most of the stories are real), but it really doesn't have much relevance to the market. I can't tell you the number of pieces of art I've purchased on Ebay that were vastly below true market-clearing prices. How do I know this? A. I'm an expert in that field, and B. Some of these pieces were subsequently sold by me to knowledgeable art dealers for four and five times what I paid for them. Did these pieces impact the market? Not the first time. Not by a long shot.

It is the price-setting investors at the margin that determine the prices of art or RED Ones or anything else. These $11,300 RED sales are so far off the margin as to be safely able to ignored as not part of the real RED One market. In economics and statistics we have a name for them. We call these points "outliers," because often they are "out there, lying about the data."

:-)

I want someone to offer any of us a RED One, in great condition, for $12,000 or $12,500. Until that happens on a somewhat regular basis, we can all infer that the market for RED Ones is NOT $12,000.

Stephen

[James Mathers]

Again for clarification, I am talking about about quick, no hassle, purchases of RED Ones bodies for a price in the neighborhood of $15,000, plus a similar percentage for most of the accessories, such as EVF, Drives, LCDs, etc. Please note that it was not I who was quoting fantastically lowball prices of $10-12K.

On the other hand, I am getting responses from people who are expecting to sell their camera, which they may have been using for a year, for list or even a premium above, which I see as equally unrealistic. My previous post on market condition was speaking more to the later.

My clients are still looking for at least 3 more RED packages, so please contact me if you would like to discuss it or get more details.

I don't check the Private Messages too often, so please e-mail me at:

Mathers at DigitalCinemaSociety dot Org

With Sincere Thanks,
James Mathers
Cinematographer
Digital Cinema Society, President
Studio City, CA

[david farland]

Stephen brings up some good points and I agree with him.

James, you also bring a good point to the table, ~$15K.

That seems like an okay price for someone holding onto their R1 whilst they await the dawn rays of Epic to redeem their whole $17.5K.
Well maybe only $16K with the transfer cost, but that'll depend on if someone does tranfer their R1, will the receiver be alotted the seller's position in the queue for an Epic. Obviously it's in Red's interest to not transfer the sellers' queue # as that's promote more new sales. Maybe this is talked about somewhere on the forum?
D