Ok, so here's my setup, what do you think Gibby?

[TimothyD]

Hi Gibby and everyone,

In reply to a post about Red on the Cow, I made up a list of what my kit will consist of, and how much it will cost. I thought I'd see what kind of feedback you might give on this:

(By the way, I do know that this is the cheapest 2/3" HD lens out there, but it is the best I can probably do. I'm open to other suggestions though and know this may be a weak spot in my setup...)

BEGIN PASTED POST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here is a list of the components that I plan to order to buid a complete Red kit for HD...

***IMPORTANT*** I have no intention or allusions about shooting 4k or any narrative cinema, I plan to buy this camera because it is the best HD camera in its price range, the cinema aspect is of no interest to me personally...

Red One camera body: $17,500
Red Drive: $900
Red Power pack (2 batteries and charger): $1,450
Red Basic Production Pack: $1,250
Red EVF and Arm: $3,070
Red B4 lens adapter: $3,500
Canon KJ20X85BKRS HD Lens: $8,249.95

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._20x_2_3_.html

I come up with a grand total of $35,919.95

That seems like a pretty good price to me when I look at the competition in XDCAM or the HPX-500. It may be a bit more than the low end with those offerings, but it is full raster, uses a better compression codec, offers variable speed, etc.

I don't know what the people who plan to do cinema work in 35mm will be spending, but that is really not a factor to me. I just want the best camera I can get for my money, and from what I can tell this pretty much decimates everything else in the price range. That is what matters to me...

Thanks,

Tim

[JD Holloway]

Consider extra batteries and extra HDs unless this is for non pro use.

Make sure this lens is wide enough for your purposes. (x1.3 ish crop factor for 2K)
59 degrees fov on the canon (widest) will be about 37-39mm on 35 mm full frame dslr (or in this zone i suspect)

What are you shooting Tim?

[jaadgy akanni]

Canon KJ20X85BKRS HD Lens: $8,249.95

Please help me make sense of this What gives? Why?

[TimothyD]

Hi guys,

In answer to JD's questions, I will be only getting two batteries and one Red Drive at first because I had to squeak under the line to even budget for the Red One. I will get more batteries and Red Drives as the need arises. For now, as long as they keep working these will suit my needs.

The crop factor is something I had not considered. Is there a wide-angle adapter that would solve this problem for me??? Maybe something I could just leave on the camera at all times???

In answer to your question about what I shoot, I work for Public Relations at a university. I shoot everything from simple news magazine style pieces to commercials and everything in-between. I cover many events, and do lots of human interest pieces that are akin to mini-docs. Pretty much everything under the sun that doesn't involve actors...

In response to Jaadgy's question...

I had to make a lot of compromises to get this camera at all, so I look at the cheap lens as something I can probably remedy in the future. If I can convince Red to offer the B4 adapter in Canon mount in addition to the PL mount then I will be able to shoot with our massive array of still glass whenever I want as well (without dealing with collimation).

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Tim

[Michael Schrengohst]

$11,750 for a 2/3" inch lens and the adapter?
And your limited to 2K
Why don't you look at some used Cine-lenses?
I am going to start with the Nikkors I have.
I figured if a bunch of guys are running around
shooting HD with 35MM adaptors mounted on
a 1/3" chip cameras then shooting RED directly
with Nikkors will not be too bad.

[Steve Gibby]

Timothy,

For your intended use, HD EFP, I think you're on the right track. JD accurately raised the FOV issues. You can put a wide converter on the front of 2/3" HD ENG zooms. Keep in mind the difference between wide converters and wide adapters. Wide converters are full zoom through, but wide adapters are only partial zoom. IMO you'd want to stick with a converter. Converters are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Since the RED B4 adapter contains optics that correct for the use of B4 lenses that were designed for 3-chip camera systems, and you're considering adding more glass to the front of the lens in the form of a wide converter, the optical quality results of that setup need to be tested. In theory it should be fine, but in analyzing a wide converter you'll want to make sure you get one that has very good optical performance. B4 2/3" HD wide converters and adapters are made by Century (Schneider), and Cavision and 16 x 9 also make them. There is no light loss with modern technology lens-front converters and adapters.

Century HD Broadcast lens add-ons page:
http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm....aspx?CID=1085

Another consideration that waits testing is the possibility of shooting 2k REDCODE RAW using a RED B4 adapter and HD ENG zoom. Stuart English mentioned recently that 1080p is recommended, but that the B4 adapter does spread the coverage to 2k, and that quality of results in 2k with that setup remain to be tested. If, and I emphasize "if", 2k test results come out favorable in quality, and the wide converter you use is of excellent optical quality, then it may be possible to shoot your stuff with a RED B4 converter, HD ENG zoom, and wide converter combination in a choice of 2k RC RAW, or 1080p RGB. There are no tested answers to the feasibility or results of that setup yet. I've previously talked with Century about them supplying some wide converters, a PL to PL 2x to test with the RED 300mm prime, etc. for our upcoming Los Angeles tests of RED #8. I believe they'll come through on that.

If you need to shave a bit of the price of the HD ENG zoom that you mentioned, to make room in the budget for a wide converter, used HD ENG zooms can be found for as low as $5.5k if your search.

As I mentioned above, a lot of these setups need to be field tested on RED One in order to get definitive answers. The setup you mentioned is one way of solving the equipment needs of the type of shooting you described. There are other modifications of that setup possible. You’re doing the right thing to get you to your destination…searching and asking. It’s a never-ending process in this industry. Just when you feel you have most of the answers, technology updates require you to re-think your setups…but IMO that’s one of the exciting things about this business!

Hope this helps…

[TimothyD]

$11,750 for a 2/3" inch lens and the adapter?
And your limited to 2K
Why don't you look at some used Cine-lenses?
I am going to start with the Nikkors I have.
I figured if a bunch of guys are running around
shooting HD with 35MM adaptors mounted on
a 1/3" chip cameras then shooting RED directly
with Nikkors will not be too bad.

Hi RedGuy,

I only need the 2k for 99% of what I shoot, and hope to shoot with Canon still glass for the other 1%.

I don't want the shallow depth of field that 35mm offers anyway, because most of what I do is run and gun, and I need to be in focus at all times.

Peace,

Tim

[JD Holloway]

Canon makes a number of wide adapters (.6-.75 ish), they can be found new and used for a number of their ENG lenses.

I'm actually unsure if you even need an ENG lens. Its your call but...

Perhaps a nikkor/canon zoom kit would fit your bill, and cost considerably less? Still lenses can be wider/cheaper/faster/better. Plus they let you shoot 4K RAW. The advantages of this are too many to list here. The only feature that the ENG kit would give you is a zoom rocker, but it will cost you nearly 15000+ (10+k+3.5K+ wide adapter +tax) to get that feature. RED has not even promised to deliver 2k windowed RAW yet (waiting for Q.C. to say OK) from the B4 adapter.

The money you save using still glass will probably buy the REDgrip/motor (many controls), and cheap matte box and FF (if not REDgrip) (check out CVBs thread) and maybe more batteries and drives. You need the matte box anyway unless you like shooting f22-32 outside or 1/500sec exp. etc. Just hide your kit from the film dept!

I hope Gibby will contribute. The thing about B4 lenses is that many of us have them "laying about" and can put them to good use. The wider canon HD glass is rather versatile IMHO...

[JD Holloway]

LOL took me too long to post! Phone rang!
Thanks Gibby!

As for 35mm DOF, just set your lenses at f8 "and be there" as the gum shoe photojournos say.
Just have lots of NDs available in your cheesy Khaki shooting vest!

Shooting 4k and down converting to 2k/1080p output in post means incredible low-light abilities (low noise floor etc.)
This is invaluable for doc work when you have no control what-so-ever.

[Steve Gibby]

I agree with what you said there JD. There's definitely more than one way to solve the setup for what Timothy wants to shoot. I'll be analyzing those same setup, field workflow, and cost issues for my own work. We should have some good answers shortly when we can filed test a RED One with multiple lens/accessory setups.

When it's a one-off program of project, rental of needed lens/accessories is a real good consideration. I'll be acquiring most of my footage in 4k REDCODE RAW @ 24fps and 30fps with 35mm cine/35mm still/SuperGrip, RED motor setups, and 2k RC RAW @ 60fps (action, high motion) with various lens/accessory setups (including B4 2/3" HD zooms), and occasional 1080p RGB with B4 2/3" HD ENG zooms, so lens, accessory, and size/weight of my rigs will be constantly changing. The multiple options for configuration, resolutions, formats, and setups of RED One give us a lot of ways to go, depending on what we're trying to produce.