Thread: it's just another workflow...

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  1. #1 it's just another workflow... 
    Junior Member
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    Hi guys,
    i'm new on this forum since it's the first time i'm gonna use the Red One (i'm really looking for!). first of all congratulations for the community, REALLY useful.
    I've already looked a lot of posts and more or less now i have a clearer idea of what i'm gonna do. But still, since i'm virgin i don't know if it's the right one.
    So, it's gonna be a 30" commercial for television, we'r not gonna have a lot of material (i mean it's not the new episode of the Lord of the rings), and i'm gonna edit it with FCP 6.0.4, using a Macbook Pro with a GeForce 8600M GT 512 MB (the new topline macpro will arrive in 2 weeks..)
    We'll shoot using the Red Drive 320 GB to ingest, but then we don't have any kind of RAID to use during editing so i can't even think to work with uncompressed RED raw material (i'll use an external Lacie harddisk 7200 rpm); I was thinking to capture with the log&transfer and work directly with the ProRes HQ in the timeline and export directly from there in an uncompressed format.
    So, my question(s) is:
    1) is this workflow (that's the easiest one, i know...) a good one or is it better to work with offline materials? i'm just afraid of all the consequences of the offline/online problems that can come out (i saw the Crimson and the Monkey Extract softwares and they seem pretty cool, but my past experiences with the offline/online process are really bad).
    2) starting with the point that the commercial is done for TV and not for cinema, the fact that we'r not gonna use the Red raw but the ProRes how much will affect the quality of the finale image on the TV screen?
    3) Shooting in 3K or in 2K will be a considearable difference on the TV screen? (i'm not even thinking about 4K now...)
    4) Will my mac manage to handle this workflow? (i mean, i already used the ProRes and it seems it can manage, but still...). Morover at the end of the editnig/colorcorrection i'll use After FX with some freeze frame of the footage.

    Any suggestion?
    I know most of you would be tired to see this kind of post, but as i said i'm a virgin, excited and happy to start working with the Red One after months of HDV Sony and HVX200 Panasonic, but still a virgin...
    Thanks a lot in advance
    Michele
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member David Birdy's Avatar
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    Welcome to Reduser!
    Give this a try..It's from Big T...

    Dave

    ________________________________________
    This could be the most important email for a lot of you struggling with POST.
    We have just finished months of major testing towards grading of RED footage, editing of RED footage and finished POST & Mastering to SRHD.

    Over the last 8 months of shooting many big budget RED jobs and posting many different ways we have come to a point that for TV AD LAND we have been wasting lots of time and money in POST rendering files that quite honestly don't need to be rendered.

    Having to RENDER everything out to TAPE or to a readable format for the AVID guys was becoming to much of a chore. Rendering all the files out to either DPX , tiff or even PRO RES was taking for ever as well. Especially if you've shot about 6 hours of footage.
    We have tested and tested and re-tested to find the quickest way to edit, online, grade and to master RED out to HD / 2k / sd etc.

    In short it goes like this.

    Set REC709 in your RED CAMERA Quick time proxy settings.
    Once shot place your 1k or 2k REC709 Proxy Quicktimes directly into the FCP time line. FCP should auto set the sequence time line to PRO RES 10bit (hq) at what ever file dimension (2k 0r 1k) you throw into it. Simple.

    Set time line to unlimited RT and set your playback to LOW.
    Now edit and grade away happily in FCP. No rendering needed at this stage.
    For example I have just dropped 4hours 22mins of RED 2k proxie quicktimes into my Final cut time line, It took less than 5 seconds to load it all in and play and edit.
    I usually do this on set in my laptop for the clients.

    Simple.

    Now If you have incorrectly exposed your shot on the day, Just go back to RED ALERT adjust your brightness, exposure or contrast of that shot to give your self more information. Then Generate new quicktime proxies via RED ALERT. (this will take less than 2 seconds to do).These will replace themselves automatically in your FCP time line.

    Simple

    Ok your edit is done, your client loves it. You now set your RT to safe and your playback to HIGH. You will see a RED RENDER line appear above your edit. You press RENDER. (It will RENDER the time line in PRO RES (HQ) 30sec at 2k is around 1 minute to RENDER out using a standard 8 core MAC.
    Your TV AD, music Video etc etc is Done finished in HD or HD and ready to go to tape, TV Stations, DVD...etc.

    Easy.

    We do this daily without a single hiccup on very large projects.

    see link: http://www.zoomfilmtv.com.au/ftp/Rec709_vs_PDlog/

    As you can see with this grade test using just the QT proxies up against the RENDER intensive DPX method. The difference between the DPX process and the QT proxie use is not going to give you hardly anymore to play with.
    I recommend using either the DPX or direct R3d grading if you have completely stuffed up exposure on the day of shooting it.

    Happy Shooting.

    Big T
    Join Date: Jan 2008
    Location: AUSTRALIA
    Posts: 292
    Proxie Editing & ONLINE
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  3. #3  
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    thanks Dave, i saw this post 10 minutes after i posted mine. sounds really good, i think i'll try this (moreover now i discovered that the budget is so low we can't afford neither Monkey Extract...), hoping my mac will collaborate...
    just to know, anyone had problems with the online/offline process using Monkey Extract?
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  4. #4  
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    Hi David, I am trying out your workflow and I have a question. Why the FCP automatically set the fps to 25? Shouldn't be 24?!
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  5. #5  
    What is the fastest way to import a bunch of quicktime references from the day's shoot into FCP sequence for dailies playback?
    Benjamin Epps
    Elkstar Productions
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member David Birdy's Avatar
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    Quickest way maybe to record in real-time to FCP, then you can play back
    from your FCP onset or the dailies.

    Caution! FCP will only play odd, (fast or slow) frame rates if you play them out of the camera and record them in real-time in FCP.

    Dave
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