Thread: What about docs?

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member JustinGD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkguy View Post
    YOU CAN DO IT...
    Can this apply to me too? Sharkguy, your explanation answered a lot of my questions too. I can't wait to start learning. Thanks.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Damien Molineaux's Avatar
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    We have a doc which was initially planned for this summer, but the shoot has just been pushed back to Sept.-Oct. Since we're supposed to get our Red in August, we are now considering shooting it with it. I have a Zeiss S16 zoom so we're planning to shoot in 2K, also because it allows more footage per GB. Backup will be done in the field simultaneously to two HDs (in Raid 1), which will be carried separately. We'll probably use 750 GB disks as their price is coming down due to the arrival of 1 TB drives. Of course the lens will have to be tested out first (and the camera). Anyhow, these are my choices for doc.

    Cheers,
    Damien
    www.c-sideprod.ch
    camera rental and post services

    www.earthling-prod.net
    filmmaking around the world since 1999
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  3. #13  
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    Im a little bit curious about traveling with this cam. That is, plane, train etc. Its not like HDV or a HDCAM.

    Anyways, think about this. Like maybe 5 years from now, you go from a-b by plane (long distanse), travel into the jungel, shoot for 12 hours, the happy tribe doing the moon dance (Guess they have figure out some better Hard drives and battery at that time), go back to your camp and transfer all the data in a couple of hours over the Satellit nett to your happy-cutter back home. The best thing is. When you get back home the doc is viewing 1080p on the nett in all its glory. instant-doc for short :)
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  4. #14  
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    within 2 weeks of receiving RED 103 i'll be flying to salt lake city to shoot a interview for a doc ... i plan to travel the lightest i can - cam, 2 batts(no charger), lens ... will rent tripod etc in SLC ... planning to carry camera on board plane ... from that shoot i'll learn something about traveling with camera ...i'll let you all know about traveling experience ... as of now will shoot 4k for a 720p project...
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    It was mentioned that the 18-85mm was put on the back burner. Not sure if it's dead yet, just pushed back at the moment.
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  6. #16 18-50 lens, RAID 0 makes for a tough doc situation 
    After watching the Red screening, I was blown away with the quality. Thought Red is totally cutting edge.

    After seeing the 18-50 lens instead of the promised 5:1 zoom, I thought to myself this lens will not work for documentary shooting. No chance for cut aways in a cinema verite situation, and not long enough for an interview. Typical portrait lens => 85mm. One of the Red team members suggested since I had 4K footage, I could zoom in in post and get my close ups. How do I plan that while hand holding? Using a 2/3" lens or a 16mm lens is not taking advantage of the Red promise--full 35mm depth of field. Using a high quality 2/3" HD zoom with the 3500.00 B4 adaptor = mondo bucks. Another suggestion was buy a Cooke 5:1 on the open market. Not sure what that might run. Perhaps 2X the cost of the Red body?

    I asked another Red fellow about Raid 0 safety issues, what happened to Raid 1, he told me, that that I might want to shoot with the Flash chips. Again flash chips will not work for a Doc.

    Red seems like a fantastic system, but it still needs to prove itself day in and day out. As an owner/operator, I can't invest that kind of capital without a track record or client base. It is a tremendous bargain going up against the Sony F-900 or a Viper, but the original DVX on steroids concept does not apply. A basic rig with the 3:1 zoom costs 10 times as much as the DVX. Treating Red as an experiment without a built in client base requires very deep pockets.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Ken Corben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Sceptic View Post
    After seeing the 18-50 lens instead of the promised 5:1 zoom, I thought to myself this lens will not work for documentary shooting. No chance for cut aways in a cinema verite situation, and not long enough for an interview. Typical portrait lens => 85mm.
    Video Sceptic are you French? LOL.

    Dude, don't be so hard on yourself or traditionalist in the genre. It's all about telling a great story and the demand for HD format is exploding. No cutaways- HUH? Also, if the traditional 85mm portrait look is a must keep in mind the math:

    A CMOS digital lens format conversion factor of 1.5 means that the RED 18-50 is a 25-75 35mm lens equivalent - that's pretty darn close for the price. Keep in mind it's also about pushing the envelope in applying HD technology. The amount of lighting is similar and the difference in look between an 85 and 75 will only be noticed by you (and your DP?). Also, important to note RED has always said and continues to say, "specifications subject to change." No lenses have ever been "PROMISED."

    Quote Originally Posted by Video Sceptic View Post
    I asked another Red fellow about Raid 0 safety issues, what happened to Raid 1, he told me, that that I might want to shoot with the Flash chips. Again flash chips will not work for a Doc.
    HUH? The 32GB flash will record 25-30 minutes of 4K redcode RAW once formatted and the change out time is what 15 seconds. Why does that not work? In the old days we had to change friggin' magazines - geez, changing a tape takes more time than changing a flash card. I do not understand why it doesn't work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Video Sceptic View Post
    Red seems like a fantastic system, but it still needs to prove itself day in and day out. As an owner/operator, I can't invest that kind of capital without a track record or client base. It is a tremendous bargain going up against the Sony F-900 or a Viper, but the original DVX on steroids concept does not apply. A basic rig with the 3:1 zoom costs 10 times as much as the DVX. Treating Red as an experiment without a built in client base requires very deep pockets.
    OK, Now I can finally agree with you. The system is currently BETA and does have to be fleshed out for our genre, but that's the beauty of it really. If you ordered one today by the time your camera was ready to ship in 8-12 months RED originated DOCS will already be airing and screening and this forum, as well as other sources, will have shared the trials and tribulations as well as the solutions. I would say that a $1750 fully refundable deposit is a rather low risk investment. But that's just my opinion.
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  8. #18  
    I'm still tied to (for the immediate future) HDCam 1080i 59.94 deliverables. My people tell me that until something changes for the widely-accepted and adopted better in digital archiving, work for the tiffany HD network(s) requires a tape-out delivery and storage masters.

    I don't know what the Big Four are doing, but I don't work for them.
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  9. #19 French Artist seeks enlightenment, a Redvolution 
    The slight against the French shows a lack of artistic reverence for certain cultural powerhouses of the Western World--Hugo, Godard, Truffaut, Tartuffe, Monet, Gaugan. And a camera maker like Aaton. Sounds like USA tunnel vision dude. I think Jannard is French as well. Don't bit the hand that feeds you RED. LOL.

    This forum's main design, aside from selling cameras, is to generate constructive ideas on ways to improve RED product. More power to RED for it's ambitions.

    What I presented in my analysis were legitimate concernts for both the documentary filmmaker and a wider market. It is imprudent to shoot RAID 0. RAID 1 is essential for peace of mind. Peace of mind, a flying above technical worries, releases that magificent, poetic inner French voice.
    Unless you have an assistant standing next to you at all times to wrangle cards and feed the computer, forget Flash in a long form verite situation. Bring on the 5X zoom ASAP. Bring on RAID 1 ASAP. A program to monitor drive health would help too.
    Long live France. Long live Jannard.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Ken Corben's Avatar
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    Well Video Sceptic I can see that you and I are not going to agree on much. I studied filmmaking under Jean Pierre Gordin a student of Goddard - he laughed at my French jokes - my "crack" about you being French is a sense of humor that obviously fell on deaf ears.

    I am a huge fan of Oscar winner Jacques Perrin's work and was honored when he said as much of my work. So much for the French tunnel vision Dude.

    And for the life of me I will never understand how a 32 GB (25 minute record time) compact flash card will fail a verite long form film when the very French roots of verite come from 35 and 16mm film with 5-10 minute loads and a minimum of several minutes to "reload" a French made ACL or NPR.

    I agree we disagree and may you find the solution to continue your success as a filmmaker for that is what really matters - not whether RED fails the verite long form genre.

    c'est la vie
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