Thread: Komodo 12.2 stops of dynamic range in CineD test.

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  1. #1 Komodo 12.2 stops of dynamic range in CineD test. 
    According to the CineD test, Komodo offers only 12.2 stops of dynamic range. I know that it's a global shutter sensor but I'm a bit disappointed, I was hoping for a better result. What's your opinion?

    https://www.cined.com/red-komodo-6k-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-latitude-test/
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    Never be disappointed until you test it yourself.
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    Never be disappointed until you test it yourself.
    Unfortunately, I have been waiting for my Komodo since mid-November...
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    More interesting than the Komodo DR measurement (and something I can anecdotally confirm/have noticed with all REDs), is the "highlight recovery algorithm" being decidedly monochromatic (Graeme has said as much about IPP2; reconstructs highlight DR out of the non-clipped channels). What I didn't realize was that it's two full highlight stops worth that are compromised. Not only is that a lot, but it also makes even over/under exposure almost impossible with r3ds (outside of maybe Monstro).

    This just acutely demonstrates that "usable stops" (including recoverable stops that actually have decent info) are far more important than maximum measurable DR, especially since Xylas are only black/grey/white so you wouldn't see that massive colour shortcoming in the high end. Case in point, look at how many more colour consistent/recoverable high-end stops are available in ALEVIII (which is advertised as *only* "14+") or even BMD cameras. Heck, the overexposure section of that CineD article shows it clearly enough; only able to recover 1 stop over exposure on the skintone highlight.

    The other question is why the prores file doesn't have the massive green colour shift in recovered under-exposure? I can understand why the prores is less noisy (it's a 6k>4k downscale for prores, right?), but don't understand why there's such a massive green tint? The only difference I can see is that they used the raw settings to bring up the r3d, but used the LGG for the prores file... Would the green colour cast still be there in the r3d if they left ISO at 800 and used LGG to boost it 5 stops instead?
    Last edited by Mike P.; 01-18-2021 at 11:23 AM.
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    Phil, it's that time of the year again!
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    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    This just acutely demonstrates that "usable stops" (including recoverable stops that actually have decent info) are far more important than maximum measurable DR
    As I have trying to say for a while.

    However, I never read what IPP2 profile for R3D they used? Did they use that instead of a flat starting point? Because it looks like the graph bends far more like a curve that uses those end stops to curve off highlights and shadows.
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    This falls exactly in line with what I have seen from the footage thus far. Itís comparable to the A7S3 and behind the C70. But great footage has been captured with less. Motion cadence with the global shutter is better than the C70. Thatís said the shutter of the A7S3 is fast enough that motion cadence is about the same for all intents and purpose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Karydis View Post
    Phil, it's that time of the year again!
    It very much might be. This is not correct usage of Xyla, which is a ~3200K illuminate, and the chart seems to be set to 5600K which would taper off this way to the clipping point, which will also have an impact on their shadow stops due to how light works essentially. Red channel will clip first on tungsten for sure. But they are visibly off by more than 2 stops here within their own charts based on the small web graphics alone.

    But yeah. I guess it might be that time of the year again.
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    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
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    Why would anyone use 3200k temperature on a camera sensor (cmos) that prefers 5600k light due to its blue starvation? If anything 5600k would improve the performance.... If they used 3200k light they would get blue noise in the shadows much sooner.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    Why would anyone use 3200k temperature on a camera sensor (cmos) that prefers 5600k light due to its blue starvation? If anything 5600k would improve the performance....
    Various emissive tests still utilize tungsten due to it's full spectrum. Not to mention it's still highly relevant in the industry in general. Utilizing corrective gels or optics can change this to whatever you want. All sensors in general have a different native color temperature and compounded by optics in the path that could also vary.

    5600K would generally just improve blue channel noise, not really sensitivity ideally.

    Also generally true is sensors do contain more luminance information than chroma, mostly commonly seen in really pushing still camera raw files, but what you are seeing here is a white balance error and not examining the clipping points.

    I'll underline again there are slides included with the Xyla chart to block the patches that will inevitably eat up a stop or two in the shadows if you have the clipping patch and likely the first few highlight patches in frame mostly due to the flare creating lifted blacks/contamination.
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