Thread: The PAL problem

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  1. #1 The PAL problem 
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    So I'm all fine with 40 fps max at 6K, there has to be a limit somewhere. But it seems there's a very lacking part of the camera where 5K does not reach 50 fps.
    48 fps is perfectly fine in NTSC land, but in PAL regions, this creates a ton of problems.

    Getting a nice supersampled 5K to 4K slomo shot with EU sockets on the lights will create flicker. So we need to lower our acquisition resolution quality in order to be able to get those shots, just because we are missing only 2 frames per second in 5K mode.

    Can this be resolved in a firmware update? Is there any way this can be solved before the official versions of the camera are released? I am aware that these things can be harder than just "flipping a switch", but is it a hardware limit to the sensor, or processor power? Can it be resolved with a quality change to compression?

    At the current specs and months of discussions about them, I think most things have been perfectly balanced for the camera at its price range. It is a disruptive camera in the way I believe is good for Red and filmmakers. But these 2 frames missing is a bit of a miss towards PAL regions of the world. We get a downgrade to what's possible with the camera, as well as all the productions that go to PAL regions to shoot.

    Is this resolvable? Or is there no way to fix this?
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member William Long's Avatar
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    +1

    Yes I agree, those two extra frames would make a considerable difference in a lot of other countries.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Giles Harvey's Avatar
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    +2 bit of deal breaker really
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Daniel Pearson's Avatar
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    +3, also can be an issue in Australia.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member yann LHENORET's Avatar
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    Give us two more frames, please!
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  6. #6  
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    +5. As an American i'm used to NTSC but living in Singapore...
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  7. #7  
    Digital FX Greg M's Avatar
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    are you still delivering analog content?
    NTSC and PAL are no longer relevant...but regardless I cant imagine RED is holding back 2 frames, its got to be a limitation of the hardware.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Daniel Pearson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg M View Post
    are you still delivering analog content?
    NTSC and PAL are no longer relevant...but regardless I cant imagine RED is holding back 2 frames, its got to be a limitation of the hardware.
    The issue is about lighting and traditionally PAL regions running on 50hz. 48fps can introduce flicker in sources like LED displays and some lighting that 50p can avoid.
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  9. #9  
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    Its more an issue w/ the lights (both indoor and outdoor) and the flicker caused by 50hz vs NTSC regions @ 60hz (from what i understand). Major nightmare to edit.

    edit: sorry see daniel already wrote the same thing ahead of me...
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Satsuki Murashige's Avatar
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    Can you not use a 172.8 degree shutter angle to get rid of 50Hz flicker at 48fps? Not ideal perhaps, but it should be a reliable workaround.
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