Thread: 50FPS Timebase

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  1. #1 50FPS Timebase 
    I'm working with a broadcaster that edits using a 50FPS timebase and wants all real time footage captured at 50fps. The minimum requirement for capture and delivery is 4K. I can capture 5,6 or 8K but they will conform to 4K.

    The issue for me is that using my Epic Dragon DSMC1 at 4K2:1 my max frame rate allowed is 60fps leaving no room for creative high frame rates.

    I plan on upgrading to a DSMC2 (not sure which yet) but I can't find anywhere on Donna Pro or any other information that will allow me to plug in my timebase, sensor and play with different frame rates to see what my max frame rate will be. I want to do this so I can make an informed decision about how to proceed.

    Anyone care to share some wisdom?
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Michael you are confusing project time-base, with recorded FPS.

    Your project time base is something fixed: 23.98, 25 (PAL), 29.97, 50fps, etc.

    Your recorded FPS is VARIABLE, and can be adjusted on the fly. This is a creative choice (like ISO, temp, etc) and is separate from your TIMEBASE.

    In DSMC1 for example, you can shoot 23.98 in 4K (that's your TIMEBASE) and record up to 120FPS (that's the slowest creative choice available at 4K).

    Hope this helps
    Nick Morrison
    Founder, Director & Lead Creative
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  3. #3  
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    Regarding available DSMC2 frame rates at given resolutions, that's on the tech specs at red.com/dsmc2.
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  4. #4  
    Hey Nick,

    Thanks for your response. I may have not been clear. The broadcaster wants both the project timebase at 50 and the recorded realtime frame rate at 50fps. Setting my project timebase to 50 means my ability to record high frame rates is severely hampered.

    If I set my project timebase on the RED to 50, and capture 4K2:1 the highest fps allowable is 60fps.

    Am I missing something?
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  5. #5  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Michael, it's a bit unclear, but if you have a DSMC1 Epic Dragon you have up to 120fps in 4K.

    With a project timebase of 50p you can easily shoot 2X slow mo at 100fps or whatever at 4K.

    Interestingly, if you were going that route, I'd actually go with 5K 2:1 since you mention that ratio. It tops out at 101fps.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  6. #6  
    Phil,

    Thanks for getting back with me so quickly.

    It IS a bit unclear. I would have sworn I had up to 100fps but I am physically restricted within the settings from going higher than 60 when I set my project timebase to 50fps (4K2:1) Again, I have only shot in Europe a hand full of times and it was always for use in North America so I'm pretty sketchy on working outside of a standard 23.98 project timebase. Probable that this is operator error but I'm stumped.

    When I get back to the shop on Monday I could even record my touch screen and send you what I'm seeing.

    I appreciate the help. I'm not finding much on working with different timebases in the RED literature.
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  7. #7  
    Phil,

    Thanks for getting back with me so quickly.

    It IS a bit unclear. I would have sworn I had up to 100fps but I am physically restricted within the settings from going higher than 60 when I set my project timebase to 50fps (4K2:1) Again, I have only shot in Europe a hand full of times and it was always for use in North America so I'm pretty sketchy on working outside of a standard 23.98 project timebase. Probable that this is operator error but I'm stumped.

    When I get back to the shop on Monday I could even record my touch screen and send you what I'm seeing.

    I appreciate the help. I'm not finding much on working with different timebases in the RED literature.
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  8. #8  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    To make sure you are getting maximum frame rates ensure Look Around and HDRx are turned off. As well as any Frame Processing like Averaging or Summing.

    There is also no global standard for syncing beyond 60p, but you'll likely go off a 50p sync even when you are rolling slow motion.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________
    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  9. #9  
    Copy that. Thank you. It will be a 50p sync.
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  10. #10  
    Curious, wha broadcaster is it? I would personally refuse the job if someone asked me to do work in 50p.

    I would cheat them and shoot 25p and deliver double frames in post. As to me 50p just looks ugly and they waste bandwidh for no good reason. :)
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
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    VFX / Flame / Motion capture / Monstro
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