Thread: Blackmagic Camera Update July 2020

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  1. #191  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Pultz View Post
    JB, when you punch in while using the camera can you zoom to 1:1 size for critical focus? I've always wished I could zoom in a little more on my G2.
    Yeah I don’t know what the punch in amount will be, but it’s a lot more than the standard G2.

    They’re playing with different amounts I think.

    Focus is a challenge for sure. The built in monitor really isn’t good enough for that kind of critical work. It’s more of a menu interface that can display a picture than a precision monitor.

    We went back to old fashioned techniques. Experienced focus puller. Using a tape measure :-)

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  2. #192  
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    I keep hearing it’s “soon”.

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  3. #193  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post
    Yeah I don’t know what the punch in amount will be, but it’s a lot more than the standard G2.

    They’re playing with different amounts I think.

    Focus is a challenge for sure. The built in monitor really isn’t good enough for that kind of critical work. It’s more of a menu interface that can display a picture than a precision monitor.

    We went back to old fashioned techniques. Experienced focus puller. Using a tape measure :-)

    JB
    Is there a way to send the zoomed output via SDI so that a different monitor or EVF can be used? That would be super nice.
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  4. #194  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post

    Focus is a challenge for sure.

    JB
    JB thanks for all the valuable input! A few pages up we were discussing how the tiny pixel pitch of the sensor influences the sensor's circle of confusion and thus possibly it's DoF. Given a lens with enough resolving power, the sensor with the higher pixel pitch has a shallower DoF all else being equal. Kholi alluded to the fact that he felt focus fall off felt different with this new camera. And it seems your statement is highlighting this as well. How is your feeling on this? Did you notice a shallower DoF? How did the transition between out of focus area feel?
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  5. #195  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jonathan View Post
    JB thanks for all the valuable input! A few pages up we were discussing how the tiny pixel pitch of the sensor influences the sensor's circle of confusion and thus possibly it's DoF. Given a lens with enough resolving power, the sensor with the higher pixel pitch has a shallower DoF all else being equal. Kholi alluded to the fact that he felt focus fall off felt different with this new camera. And it seems your statement is highlighting this as well. How is your feeling on this? Did you notice a shallower DoF? How did the transition between out of focus area feel?
    Seems like it would be shallower right around the point of focus, since the focus is only perfect at a single distance and higher resolution makes this more apparent. But the difference between the focus point and a background should not change all else things the same? (sensor size, distance, lens, etc).
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  6. #196  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Pultz View Post
    Seems like it would be shallower right around the point of focus, since the focus is only perfect at a single distance and higher resolution makes this more apparent. But the difference between the focus point and a background should not change all else things the same? (sensor size, distance, lens, etc).
    I believe this is what's going on. I mentioned in my post before that it ALSO could be due to the lack of aliasing in combination with no OLPF that I'm seeing. Also went searching around the net and found quite a lot of discussion around this same subject.

    However, there is something happening, and it's especially noticeable in wide shots. A lot of people have made the comment around the internet so I'm glad I'm not crazy, and then other cam testers also made similar comments.

    I don't think you'd notice much on tighter / longer shots, wides for sure.

    Digging the little conversations about look, vintage glass etc. Moving beyond numbers and getting to what the new tech looks like is far more fascinating.
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    Kholi could you link me? So far I've only been following on EOSHD and the official BM-Forum but those threads have mostly devolved into complete shitfests.. Unfortunately the bmcuser-forum seems to be completely dead these days!

    The question for me regarding the focus seems be more around lenses and monitoring devices. The math that if the circle of confusion is reduced than DoF is reduced is pretty clear, with two big IFs - a that the lens actually has that resolving power, but I'm not sure if even the Supremes fully resolve 12k (that doesn't need to be a bad thing). And the other question that apparently plays into DoF which someone mentioned earlier is what monitor you're viewing the footage on. Obviously 12k monitors don't exist (yet) and very few people have access to 8k. So if you reviewing the footage on a 4k monitor what happens to the circle of confusion or is it all evened out and the effect of the pixel pitch no longer matters?

    But yeah I am super excited about this camera - even just as a proof of concept. No more OLPFs, a new CFA and exciting color sampling are all so much more valuable to high quality image production than the headline grabbing 12k thats for sure.
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  8. #198  
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    It could be the same thing that happens when comparing Medium Format vs FF35, where it just has so much more resolution that it 'looks like glass'. People were saying similarly things when Dragon-VV/Monstro dropped; that it has a smoothness to it, independent of sharpness (so it's still sharper than 8, 6, 4k, but not gaudily so [particularly on faces]).

    Also I'm hoping that in the same way monochrome sensors up sensitivity & sharpness because they lack a CFA, the RGBW sensor does the same... Basically combining the best of both types of sensors (presuming the "white" ones are actually clear/filterless in the same way monochromes are). Either that, or that they can be used for other things eventually (like autofocus or low-light modes or something.)

    OH, and because it's even RGB, I'm hoping you can push saturation/colour further before it goes hypercolour/wonky and looks like trash. CCDs seemed to have endless saturation (most recently seen in the Digital Bolex), whereas CMOS tend to get funky much quicker when you boost it. So I'm hoping that's because the CFA/Algorithm is trying to compensate and can't do so as accurately when the channels aren't even.

    ...but again, this is totally my hypothesis (hope), so take it with a huge grain of salt.
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  9. #199  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jonathan View Post
    JB thanks for all the valuable input! A few pages up we were discussing how the tiny pixel pitch of the sensor influences the sensor's circle of confusion and thus possibly it's DoF. Given a lens with enough resolving power, the sensor with the higher pixel pitch has a shallower DoF all else being equal. Kholi alluded to the fact that he felt focus fall off felt different with this new camera. And it seems your statement is highlighting this as well. How is your feeling on this? Did you notice a shallower DoF? How did the transition between out of focus area feel?
    Honestly I don’t think i could back an observation casually like that.

    There’s something very nice going on though. It might be just the extra resolution ? It might be the very nice Zeiss Supremes living up their fullest potential ? I need to do more work and a more scientific study to say that I can jump on anything more than that. It feels different for sure, but I don’t know that I could say that the DOF is different simply because of the sensor... That could be any number of things.

    It looks damn nice though...Some mixed resolution clips coming very soon...

    JB
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  10. #200  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jonathan View Post
    Kholi could you link me? So far I've only been following on EOSHD and the official BM-Forum but those threads have mostly devolved into complete shitfests.. Unfortunately the bmcuser-forum seems to be completely dead these days!

    The question for me regarding the focus seems be more around lenses and monitoring devices. The math that if the circle of confusion is reduced than DoF is reduced is pretty clear, with two big IFs - a that the lens actually has that resolving power, but I'm not sure if even the Supremes fully resolve 12k (that doesn't need to be a bad thing). And the other question that apparently plays into DoF which someone mentioned earlier is what monitor you're viewing the footage on. Obviously 12k monitors don't exist (yet) and very few people have access to 8k. So if you reviewing the footage on a 4k monitor what happens to the circle of confusion or is it all evened out and the effect of the pixel pitch no longer matters?

    But yeah I am super excited about this camera - even just as a proof of concept. No more OLPFs, a new CFA and exciting color sampling are all so much more valuable to high quality image production than the headline grabbing 12k thats for sure.
    https://photo.stackexchange.com/ques...size-on-the-se

    Here's one thread that I read up on last night, and most of the others mirror this. It mentions what you posted about, OOF areas appearing to have more or less detail depending on the pixel size, and then transitions from OOF and in focus areas. But the actual DOF wouldn't change at all.

    Again though, it's also possibly a lack of an OLPF, lack of moire or aliasing, many other things etc. I'm not sure how you would test for that side by side.

    Edit: and here is a really long thread on DPreview about the same thing. https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4134182

    So the only areas you could observe a difference were transitions to OOF areas, but again, no actual change to DoF.
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