Thread: Blackmagic Camera Update July 2020

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  1. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Mmmm. Delicious aftertaste taste of time machine teleportation! I shouldn't be lured out to answer this because it's been a decade of improvements that seem to be overlooked here.

    First, it's not 2008/2009 anymore where much of the stems of that perspective come from, but good memory! Second, REDCODE RAW encryption has allowed it to be used in areas where an encrypted RAW file is necessary
    I agree it would be nice to encrypt my R3Ds. So how do I as the end user turn that feature on and off, and even better, encrypt them with my own personal key?

    Is that possible? I'm geniunely curious. If not, then it's more of a drawback than a benefit. I'd prefer an open published file format such as Blackmagic has done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Third and Fourth. We've not only had GPU Acceleration be implemented "way back when", but now most recently GPU Decode for realtime playback at full debayer. Far are we from the days where 18-72 hour exports were commonplace. With decent hardware you can export faster than realtime, with very decent hardware about 8X realtime. With modest hardware, slower than realtime, but REDCODE RAW is workable in realtime nonetheless, which allows 16GB laptops to even play.
    Uh, my $4000 2019 Macbook Pro with the fastest GPU option, 8-core CPU and 32GB RAM chugs, bro.

    In Resolve, I can't play back full debayer premium to UHD, off the local SSD. No nodes / LUTs / color transforms applied.

    Turned it down to HALF. Still doesn't play back in realtime.

    Just to make sure there's nothing weird, I used the very first clip in "SAMPLE R3D FILES" off RED's site of the motorcycle.

    Anyone reading the paragraphs you wrote... would not expect this result.

    I'm 100% a PC guy at heart (and have a LOT of NVIDIA GPUs at home) but when you're on set directing something and your producer keeps trying to Airdrop you stuff, you kinda need a Mac.

    If you're writing paragraphs about how awesome RED is you should probably include a disclaimer that playback falls flat on its face without CUDA.

    This is why I kinda gave up on REDUSER. I'd read all of these paragraphs and be very pro-RED - but when I get to set, I hit all of the drawbacks that everyone has kinda hidden. It's like a weird marketing bubble in here.

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  2. #132  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Two hypotheticals for you Bruce.

    1. How do you toggle encryption on film negative?

    2. Your computer problems likely should be taken up with the manufacturer. I've explained that pretty much anything CUDA, OpenCL, and even now CPU works nicely.

    Considering who my clients are and they see me using Windows boxes on set, they sort of know that if you need to go fast you a car that goes fast and that's what they expect, doesn't really matter how pretty it is. And yes, it's a bit odd that a $1500 something does better than a $4000 something. But you use the write tools for the job.

    Then again, i don't mind staring an agency or client in the face to continue working efficiently.
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  3. #133  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Meyer View Post
    5 Ursas should be enough to ensure you always have one that works.
    Meh, one working 12K Ursa counts as 16 working 3K Alexas.
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  4. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    1. How do you toggle encryption on film negative?
    Film negative is a beautiful open source format that anyone can read :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    2. Your computer problems likely should be taken up with the manufacturer. I've explained that pretty much anything CUDA, OpenCL, and even now CPU works nicely.
    But Arri Alexa LF raw plays back full-res, open gate, perfectly on the same system.

    RED chugs at even half res. "pretty much anything CUDA, OpenCL, and even now CPU works nicely" is incorrect if RED is the odd one out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Considering who my clients are and they see me using Windows boxes on set, they sort of know that if you need to go fast you a car that goes fast and that's what they expect, doesn't really matter how pretty it is. And yes, it's a bit odd that a $1500 something does better than a $4000 something. But you use the write tools for the job.
    Alexa LF + Macbook Pro is not the right tool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Then again, i don't mind staring an agency or client in the face to continue working efficiently.
    I do work efficiently. I'm just expressing a desire that it would be nice to add RED to the arsenal, and pretending its workflow flaws don't exist is silly and actually hurts RED.

    I'm not really interested in fighting my agency or client unnecessarily when it's easier to just switch to Arri. If RED comes to the table, awesome. If not, I'll just honestly state here that they're falling short.

    Here's the announcement we did for Respect, starring Jennifer Hudson, Alexa LF:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25U11a2HgcI
    The process is so damn smooth from set all the way to post. Excited to see Blackmagic now playing in the higher-end space and it's encouraging to see them avoid some of RED's mistakes (open raw format that can play back on Macbook Pro is a good start!)

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  5. #135  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Šabović Adis View Post
    Used Alexa with thousands of hours on it? Leme see...

    LOL. It's a digital camera. No moving parts. Hours don't matter.

    The Alexa still makes a much better image than the Ursa 4.6K. new or not. I'm guessing this 12K will still not match Alexa's highlights or low light. Only more Ks is useless. I of course hope I'm wrong.
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  6. #136  
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    Imma agree with Bruce on this one (all the points, really), if only because his anecdotes are more accurate/practicality based. Hell, even talking up CUDA playback is actually sugarcoating REDcode, as it glosses over how much worse performance is without it (aka playback on Apple... aka the majority of non-technical decision-makers involved in production that are still rocking their ~2016 MBP [that manages real-time ArriRaw/Prores/BRAW/etc]).

    You know what doesn’t seem to have any of these crossplatform problems, or need highest end hardware, or GPU rigamarole? BRAW... LOL! They demoed NINE streams of 12k in real-time! Got damn! That’s equivalent to what? ~21x 8k streams? Also the camera can do 12k/60 at 5:1 (Ranger 8k maxes out at 12:1). What are we even talking about?
    Last edited by Mike P.; 07-18-2020 at 06:28 AM.
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  7. #137  
    Senior Member Alexandros Tsoupras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Zananiri View Post
    If someone handed you for free either this camera or an Alexa Classic, which one would you take?
    BM ursa 12K of course it is a no brainier. More future proof more pixels more fps same color depth. And this apply to all alexa not only the classic in terms of image quality not in terms of pricing in the used market and reliability.
    Last edited by Alexandros Tsoupras; 07-18-2020 at 03:19 AM.
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  8. #138  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike S. M. View Post
    LOL. It's a digital camera. No moving parts. Hours don't matter.

    The Alexa still makes a much better image than the Ursa 4.6K. new or not. I'm guessing this 12K will still not match Alexa's highlights or low light. Only more Ks is useless. I of course hope I'm wrong.
    Oh, an Geocetric? There's no such thing in Unverse.
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  9. #139  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    I think Bruce's main point is that Red has a weak point in customer relations: things aren't always as clear as they should be.

    And on another point, I don't know why I should choose a classic Alexa over the Ursa 12K. Edit: or any Alexa, for that matter. My goodness. I can see why I'd choose a Red, although even there some models aren't competitive any more. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's called progress!
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  10. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post
    Mathew Duclos had a post on his FB group talking about this issue.

    To paraphrase, he said by his maths the 12K sensor should resolve to 227 LP/mm and that the benchmark for a sharp lens is 200LP/mm, but he also elaborated that lenses are "analog" devices and don't really have a breaking point, and later said..."don't get too caught up in the megapixels"

    I would say that this camera will show up a bigger difference in lenses from the high end to the lower end. You might have gotten away with hiding some sins on some more entry level lenses on other cameras compared to higher performing lenses, but this camera opens up a bigger gap.

    However it depends on what you're judging by, and generally LP'mm isn't the best way to asses a lens...well it's only one part and many would say, not as important as other attributes...

    JB
    Very much don't get too caught up. 200 LP/mm means one thing with an MTF of 99% and quite another at 1%. Most lenses at most apertures we actually want to use really don't have MTF values we'd like to see for resolutions higher than Helium, especially away from the center. I invite you to check out the MTF charts and do your own calculations.

    Yes, there are some wicked-sharp lenses that have high MTF charts running from center to edge. But those are mostly exotic telephoto lenses, not the wides and normals that basically define most genres. High-quality larger format lenses have more absolute resolving power than high-quality smaller-format lenses. A 12K sensor with Helium or Monstro pixel pitch would be amazing with Tokina Vista, Leica Thalia, etc.
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