Thread: Blackmagic Camera Update July 2020

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  1. #41  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    BMDs first cameras were a lesson in what not to do. Perhaps they've figured a few things out since then. Look forward to seeing what the gaudy specs actually mean in usage...

    Cheers - #19
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  2. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kholi Hicks View Post
    In response to your previous post: all of my camera testing was filtered through a 2015 MacBook Pro that can barely open websites, and a 2015 iMac of the lowest caliber. I was able to cut 12K and color 12K on both, and the pipeline has been vastly improved.
    This is as important as the specs.
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  3. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Farokhzad View Post
    Can anyone comment on the sensor tech being used...? From what I read It's a non Bayer pattern sensor with equal amount of red blu and green.
    John Brawley mentioned on CML that:

    Instead of Bayer 2x2 grid of GRBG it has a 6x6 grid. 6G, 6B and 6R plus 18 W pixels.

    The W are clear or “white” pixels. This overcomes the reduced sensitivity issue of a 2.2 micron pitch.

    As for the sensor design, I know of 3 companies who were doing 2.2 micron work in 2018. Likely a developed concept based on on specific sensor design I'm thinking of. Those are very small micro lenses and the W pixel or clear pixel more accurately is an interesting solve to that issue.

    Here was Canon's take at 2.2 microns around that time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40yruxcr-yQ


    The subsequent things, and I do think BRAW was a smart move from BMD (I've mentioned before they needed a codec they could control the development of), was once you saw they were going to a nimble partially debayered, you knew quickly they were entering the 8K or 8K+ arena.

    They'll be some interesting chatter about color resolution and all that. Certainly a conversation about a Low Pass filter or not, looks to be not be there (rock bricks show some things), so likely 3rd party of 1st party offerings this time around. A zone plate would be an interesting thing to checkout, but I think for the time being it's an amazing accomplishment. I'm not surprised they didn't spree on licensing CFexpress because that would have added cost for sure.

    I will say, a key selling point for many on the BMD UMP 12K will be the non-windowed down resolutions if all that works as intended, this squarely relates to BRAW being partially debayered and all that, but it's certainly something people look for no matter the codec.
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  4. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    John Brawley mentioned on CML that:




    As for the sensor design, I know of 3 companies who were doing 2.2 micron work in 2018. Likely a developed concept based on on specific sensor design I'm thinking of. Those are very small micro lenses and the W pixel or clear pixel more accurately is an interesting solve to that issue.

    Here was Canon's take at 2.2 microns around that time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40yruxcr-yQ


    The subsequent things, and I do think BRAW was a smart move from BMD (I've mentioned before they needed a codec they could control the development of), was once you saw they were going to a nimble partially debayered, you knew quickly they were entering the 8K or 8K+ arena.

    They'll be some interesting chatter about color resolution and all that. Certainly a conversation about a Low Pass filter or not, looks to be not be there (rock bricks show some things), so likely 3rd party of 1st party offerings this time around. A zone plate would be an interesting thing to checkout, but I think for the time being it's an amazing accomplishment. I'm not surprised they didn't spree on licensing CFexpress because that would have added cost for sure.

    I will say, a key selling point for many on the BMD UMP 12K will be the non-windowed down resolutions if all that works as intended, this squarely relates to BRAW being partially debayered and all that, but it's certainly something people look for no matter the codec.
    Oh nice. JB is already talking about some of the sensor tech. Those Clear pixels do a lot of interesting things, I hope he gets to it in one of his blog posts that he always does.

    I think this is a fair early assessment of the release, Phil. I'm particularly interested in how people respond and discuss Color Resolution on top of those other things (Low Pass Filter, for example, I've been shooting a lot of fine frabics and haven't come across an instance of moire or aliasing at all at 12K), how the tiny pixels affect gradations and then the more fun stuff about lensing an 80MP Sensor dedicated to motion.

    Still looking for glass that can resolve the 12K!

    The downscaling is pretty awesome. Surprised it's been this long since we've gotten it from anyone but understandable why.
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  5. #45  
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    12K under $10K + ready to shoot with Amazing spec... very Wise for July 2020 (no matter what anyone complains about - lol).

    This version is after many trials and error learning.
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  6. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    BMDs first cameras were a lesson in what not to do. Perhaps they've figured a few things out since then. Look forward to seeing what the gaudy specs actually mean in usage...

    Cheers - #19
    Yeah it’s best to ignore the 12K part. I think that just becomes a distraction to see all the other things going on here...

    It’s a very different feeling sensor in lot’s of ways. I’m no colourist either, but it’s been eye opening to grade the footage. I do know that Blackmagic RAW is the only way this sensor could work the way it does. They designed the codec for this sensor. I’m amazed they managed to keep it secret for three years....

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  7. #47  
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    Also saw this:

    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post
    RS is 16ms at 12K and 6ms for 8K from memory. Not global, but not bad.
    So, presumably, full sensor 4k would be ~3ms, maybe better?

    (Also John/Kholi, please post a link to your blogs(s) if you publish something there.)
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  8. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Jarvis View Post
    Really cool announcement. Was impressed with what the BMD team is able to do with 12K playback on a MacBook Pro and nine streams of 12k playback on the Mac Pro. Skin tones/color looked nice, for what I could tell over the steam. Didn't really look like they were pushing their color grade, so I really want to play around with their new color science. Always felt that BMD color science was more like the color of crayons, just kind of thick and heavy, so interested in where they've taken it.

    Watching the BMD camera update video and I noticed around 57:50 he moved the camera, and it looked like there was some noticeable rolling shutter effect going on. Didn't look like it was that fast of a movement. Wonder if the new sensor tech has a more extreme rolling shutter effect than normal. Not really fair to say there's an issue since it's over a stream, but something I'm curious about.

    Rolling shutter movement

    Straight after movement

    Regardless, really cool announcement of BMD.
    John Brawley mentioned the numbers:
    “RS is 15ms at 12k and 6ms at 8K.”

    Oops, it got posted above^^^
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  9. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Also saw this:


    So, presumably, full sensor 4k would be ~3ms, maybe better?
    Actually, I’m not so sure.

    I haven’t asked, I’ve been all in the 8 and 12K modes. I have feeling maybe it’s the same at 4K as 8K because the maximum full sensor frame rate is the same. I’ll ask...

    So 4K full sensor is also 120FPS, or you can do a super 16 crop at 220 FPS


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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post
    Yeah it’s best to ignore the 12K part. I think that just becomes a distraction to see all the other things going on here...

    It’s a very different feeling sensor in lot’s of ways. I’m no colourist either, but it’s been eye opening to grade the footage. I do know that Blackmagic RAW is the only way this sensor could work the way it does. They designed the codec for this sensor. I’m amazed they managed to keep it secret for three years....

    JB
    It's interesting, I wonder if partially avoids RED's patent not being a bayer pattern?
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