HYDROKOMODO. 3 years and still waiting

[Greg M]

you never bought a product before that didn't meet expectations or was a failure? I dont get this expectation that people are owed something because a product didn't meet expectations, especially considering we all had an opportunity to return it for a full refund...you waited 3 yrs, seriously whats another 2 months?

And this is from someone who bought 3 H1's...they never rocked my boat either. I should have returned them all, but I didnt...and now 3 years later I will be grateful when the time comes to take advantage of the $1000 gift im not owed because I was foolish enough to buy a unproven product from a company that never produced a phone before. I also still have that Betamax and Apple Newton, neither of which changed the world as promised...maybe I should hit Sony and Apple up for a $1000 discount too :)


BTW- Komodo will be at least $6000, and the Stormtrooper is $7000

[Christopher A. Bell]

Today 3 years ago we got the announcement of the new project hinted by Jim.
3 years ago today, I immediately bought one (and then bought a second one).

I might have misunderstood, but we were buying into a revolutionary portable media machine, powered by RED minds.
Something that would allow us to take photo and video to a new revolutionary place.

It took about 16 months to get it delivered. And when it came... let's just say that the market speaks for itself.
I was personally very disappointed in the overall experience, and I reduced my time on the forums due to that reason. It made me lose the excitement I have for RED.
Meanwhile the module promised never came, but it got shifted back into RED hands, and from Hydrogen, we are now into Komodo.

Komodo is a very different product from Hydrogen, and also a very different product from what an H1 plus module would have been.
It is not even an HydroKomodo, as I mention in the title. It is a new camera module by RED.

I understand we H1 owners might get some sort of deal on the Komodo. I feel that for all the effort we made and the commitment of paying for a product, waiting 15 months for it, and never get what was promised, it hasn't been fully rewarded. I always like the stormtrooper idea, but maybe this time was better to look into the rebels? Instead of soldiers of the evil empire, reward the people who have been waiting 3 (THREE) years for a product?

An H is a $1000 investment. A Komodo is $5000. Am I now supposed to spend 4K for a product just because otherwise I lose the benefits of buying another one that did not work?
And what if I want what was promised?
What if I didn't want a Komodo, but a H2? A portable media machine? Not another camera.

I am sorry to vent. 3 years is a long time. Seeing the stormtroopers out, and not being even offered one without having to follow IG and the forum constantly, it makes me a bit upset.
I am still a fan of RED. I like the quality of the products and I like the team. I am just wishing I got what I paid for 3 years ago.

If you had bought $1000 worth of Apple stock three years ago, THAT would have been an investment. You spent $1000 on a cell phone, that was NEVER going to be worth even as much as you paid for it, the second after you bought it.

[Med D]

I think the sting is partly due to the way Hydrogen was "introduced". So many insiders peaked behind the curtain and said nice things, it got quite a few people excited. It was kind of like RED's version of the Fyre festival really. And you are right, the Fyre people are not getting any of their money back, so I guess everyone should be happy with the Komodo discount. The good news is that Komodo seems to be greatly exceeding everyone's expectations.

I do think though that there should have been a special color just for H-buyers, it would have gone a long way towards making this sting go away once and for all. It's stilll not too late to do that.

[Phil Holland]

Hydrogen is interesting to look at in retrospect now as I stare at some of the newer premium models in front of me. I think a lot of mud was slung, but it was likely hard to come out with a first generation product in a world where premium phones that are several generations deep and mature.

Stuff that was really rough:
- Fingerprint scanner failures, hardware related. That was a sonofa.
- It didn't bother me that they used the lower horse power processor, but it didn't sit well with some.
- Launch Apps were a bit too early, the H4V related stuff. Seemed like notable leaps 2 months, 4 months, and 6 months after launch. I'd say that critical first 2 month batch of updates would have influenced influencers slightly differently, but not in a world where they are used to very mature systems.

Big ideas that didn't fully land, but kinda did too:
- H4V. Kinda ahead of it's time for mass market and certainly interesting seeing a full capture and display solution. Generation 2 and 3 of this tech would/will be more appealing.
- H4V "ecosystem" - Holopix and subsequent surrounding apps and such were interesting. Essentially everything was being built from the ground up to support this, even movies. Holopix was fun though and there was a great creative energy there as people explored what they could do with H4V.

Gotta commend Jim for having such a big idea and trying to create all that at once. I mean that really was a new phone brand, new tech for a lot of people, Instagram, App Store, and mobile Netflix/VOD as well as a few other things.

Stuff that I think were really good ideas:
- Rugged body design. Not glass, but rather Aluminum and Titanium and likely the only premium phone that's come out in recent history that didn't "need" a case to protect it from common drops and body shattering damage. I dropped my Al and it dented. I dropped my Ti multiple times, no physical damage.
- Going to underline how nice the Titanium body itself was. Very nice material I think should be explored more. Has a history being used in still cameras as well.
- Knurled grips - Also common on cases, but this phone didn't really have the opportunity to slip out of your hand without a case.
- Big battery - Shockingly Hydrogen had a big battery (4500mAh) that after a couple years of use would still hold a charge for 2-3 days. Not something that could be said for any premium models currently.
- No notch, but rather a forehead and chin. Really loathe notches for front facing cameras. That gets solved this decade luckily for the companies still doing that.

I've got strong thoughts about smartphones and I'm somewhat constantly impressed and confused by every major release. Use the Galaxy Note Ultra 20 as a good example. With such a device at again a premium price point, having that camera bump and not perhaps having a model with an expressively large battery adding thickness to the phone seems like a weird oversight. That phone could have a 9000mAh battery, run twice as long, lay flat on a table, and there is 100% a market for that even if they charged another buck or two for it. I mean if you're in and committed for a device this large, you'd be down for more power for sure.

I do like Apple's most recent design language expressed in the iPad Pro coming into the iPhones with the straighter harder sides. Their refinement of multi-camera is clean and only going to get better.

Last 3 years have unfolded a bit into premium smartphones are now essentially small laptops. Stuff you can actually toss up on a screen, plug in a keyboard and mouse (or Bluetooth em), and get work done on them. More so than ever. Apple and Samsung are real tuned into that power user as of late. General consumers don't need all the horses, but it appears everyday these things are getting more powerful. Some overseas models are doing some pretty wild dual charge/dual battery stuff for real fast recharging. I mean there's coolers for gaming phones even.

With the cameras in the phones where they are now and likely will be shortly I think a Hydrogen 2 with "weirdly large for a smartphone sensor", triple cameras or perhaps a single camera disc rotary system/turret lens setup, using those forehead and chin caverns for large foam/plastic chamber speakers. Perhaps recording into a somewhat decent bitrate H.265 RWG/Log3G10 image perhaps. That I think perhaps could have been the potential.

I will echo my thoughts though that the Camera Module versus Komodo were two different beasts. From an image makers perspective I think Komodo is far more forward thinking to use with and without a phone and certainly much more production friendly.

Back to phones. With devices now on faster product cycles from numerous brands and consumers generally holding onto devices for one full generation/1 year cycle or usually up to 3 years, occasionally 5 years; it's a bit hard to look at the mobile market. Not to mention the various sizes and versions for that matter. Phones won't ever hold their value as an investment, perhaps as a collector's item, but they are replaced too quickly and often put on sale very shortly after launch. Just like cameras, cars, and well anything they lose value the second you buy it, open it, and power it on. Now the market is dynamic with all the price points being hit and I'm betting shortly we'll see even more expensive phones outside of the exotic stuff that's already out there. Meanwhile there's still a market and audience for the low end and everything in between.

The only value I can put on a premium IOS or Android device is in the fact that I am a power user. The phone aspect of a smartphone is probably the thing I do the least with these devices now, though that's a fundamental feature. The device itself is too tangled into how I communicate, create, and connect with all sorts of things. Too many bloody things I use now have apps to control them, which is actually good, but it's sort of nuts where this is going. Which is likely how and why things are continuing to develop in the ways they are.

Sorry, long post, just thoughts.

[Christoffer Glans]

I will echo my thoughts though that the Camera Module versus Komodo were two different beasts. From an image makers perspective I think Komodo is far more forward thinking to use with and without a phone and certainly much more production friendly.

As much as I've facepalmed at myself for getting the Hydrogen, the discount Komodo is well worth it. If I can also use the Hydrogen as a monitor on Komodo, or turning it into my director's monitor with wifi video it will, in the end, be a good investment. I just wish us discount people got a bit more info and a bit of a timeframe for when we can start orders. As well as some info on how we could make use of the Hydrogen together with Komodo. Since the phone has connectors on the backside, I would also hope that we might have some Komodo to adapter case cable in the future where we can get high-speed control through the phone, just like a normal attached Red monitor.

[Kwan Khan]

If I can also use the Hydrogen as a monitor on Komodo, or turning it into my director's monitor with wifi video it will, in the end, be a good investment.

I have 6 H1 and currenlty pairing up with Inkee Ben Box (with wifi app) for all my muliticam shoots, work well however it has 150ms Latency. I would love to see H1 + Komodo works together via Wifi or any adopter or any type of hardwire conector.

[Robert Hofmeyr]

As much as I've facepalmed at myself for getting the Hydrogen, the discount Komodo is well worth it. If I can also use the Hydrogen as a monitor on Komodo, or turning it into my director's monitor with wifi video it will, in the end, be a good investment. I just wish us discount people got a bit more info and a bit of a timeframe for when we can start orders. As well as some info on how we could make use of the Hydrogen together with Komodo. Since the phone has connectors on the backside, I would also hope that we might have some Komodo to adapter case cable in the future where we can get high-speed control through the phone, just like a normal attached Red monitor.

The Komodo pogo to Hydrogen pogo connector has been scrapped. Hydrogen will connect to Komodo via USB-C like all other phones. There will be a generic cradle to hold any phone, so it will not use the Hydrogen magnets. I've asked a couple times but have not heard whether the Komodo will power the phone when connected (really hope so, as it will now use the USB port, and you can't just swap out phone batteries). Obviously this all may have changed by now, but it is the most recent info as far as I know.

[Greg M]

The Komodo pogo to Hydrogen pogo connector has been scrapped. Hydrogen will connect to Komodo via USB-C like all other phones. There will be a generic cradle to hold any phone, so it will not use the Hydrogen magnets. I've asked a couple times but have not heard whether the Komodo will power the phone when connected (really hope so, as it will now use the USB port, and you can't just swap out phone batteries). Obviously this all may have changed by now, but it is the most recent info as far as I know.

Komodo doesnt "connect" to any phone via USB-C...if you really want to use H1, it will need to be a wifi connection via the app when its available for Android. There are better options though

[Christoffer Glans]

Komodo doesnt "connect" to any phone via USB-C...if you really want to use H1, it will need to be a wifi connection via the app when its available for Android. There are better options though

This is where I think Red should do a cable that fits Hydrogen. They already know the internal components of the H1, so it would be a no brainer for them to make a cable attachment that works between the Komodo and H1.

I think, that a good second-hand use of that phone would actually be to change the phone's OS entirely into a monitor system that works through WIFI or cable, where the attachment to the phone has a battery slot for increased battery use on the H1. I mean, this phone is dead, it's gonna be super dead in a few months, so why can't we just change it into something that's pretty high standard monitor for the value it has. I think it's such a waste that we can't make use of this brick that for many just collects dust on a shelf (like mine). I plan to use it as my Komodo monitor system for wireless, but there's so much potential in this thing that I think gets wasted if we don't create that potential. At least open up the source codes for it so that some bright coder like Mikael Foolcontrol could engineer a Red monitor-OS that replaces Android on it.

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Komodo doesnt "connect" to any phone via USB-C...if you really want to use H1, it will need to be a wifi connection via the app when its available for Android. There are better options though

Don't think I want to use a phone as my primary monitor, but it's nice to have it as a backup.

As far as I recall, the plan was to have a wired connection and a phone cradle. Did this change?