Thread: KOMODO killing secondary market for DSMC cameras?

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  1. #11  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Every camera release this comes up. And there are still people filming with the RED One.

    Hard truths and perhaps too much of a personal take. Cameras are both good and bad investments, it absolutely just depends on your path, perspective, and plan. I lost a boat load of cash going into medium format digital years ago and it truly was the "bad investment" for me camera-wise. However, every other camera I've owned since has made me good money.

    Technology is moving very, very rapidly now. Manufacturers are essentially now in a 3-6 month window slap fest right now and about every year to 1.5 years a punch is really thrown. And a knock down occurs about every 5-ish years. But there is no TKO until the camera doesn't power on.

    If DSMC2 didn't alert you to killing the secondary market or RED giving that 2+ year warning on EOL on DSMC bodies, I can't see why Komodo would change your perspective. Stagnated market presence plays a big roll in certain regions. When new cams hit big markets and they captivate filmmakers and rental houses, well, that's where it's most "vibrant". I was out of state once and a year after DSMC2 was released and one guy didn't know DSMC2 was released. It just didn't hit their market yet, the news nor the camera. He looked at my DSMC2 Dragon 6K Weapon like it was alien technology.

    Personally, I'd focus on what your camera can do. You have a camera that has a higher max frame rate at 6K for instance.

    I still view Komodo as a small compact utility camera, many will use it for A-Cam or whatever, but Epic Dragon is still a fully fledged production body.

    Back to the hard truth. Cameras. Every single day you own it the camera is depreciating in value. The goal is to own it, turn a profit, get some joy out of it, and get what you can for it once you've filmed enough with it/made enough with it that you won't miss it.

    FYI. I have MAJOR LOVE for Dragon, most of the long time members of REDuser know it. I'd roll with it until the wheels fall off.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Andrew R Lewis's Avatar
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    I agree with Phil’s sentiment. I can hardly believe it’ll be four years in October that I bought my Helium. And truth is the only way I get rid of this thing is if an upgrade to DSMC3 is an option and makes financial and logistical sense when the opportunity arrives.

    This camera has been such a solid earner I can’t imagine not owning it or a newer equivalent camera moving forward.

    Komodo may very well hurt the secondary Red camera market, but honestly, if you are a shooter/DP with clients who love working with you, as long as you keep producing quality results I imagine the best bet is to work these cameras until they no longer fire up. That’s my plan.
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  3. #13  
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    I totally agree with that.
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  4. #14  
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    8K, 'nuff said.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    The wide release of Komodo will certainly impact the resale market for some DSMC models. If you're looking to sell your used camera in the $5-15K range, I expect you will feel some downdraft. As others have noted, for a lot of gigs, a DSMC2 will offer better set operations integration. IMO, that will keep the resale value from getting hammered.
    FWIW, many clients don't even know what a Komodo is, they just want you and your "RED" to show up and get them great imagery.

    Cheers - #19
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  6. #16  
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    Pretty sure resale is going to take a beating (especially DSMC1).

    You can maybe bank on 8k and HFR, but outside of that, it's a super light weight, easily powered, non-proprietary media RED, with (apparently) all the DR of its bigger brothers... Plus it has autofocus, built-in screen/control, wireless everything, adaptable to any mount (some speedboosted)...OH and Global Shutter! It's a hard sell to go with a bigger, heavier, slower version of that. In other words, why would you go with the more cumbersome platform that costs ~2~5x?

    I said it before, but I think Komodo will do to the RED line-up what the Minis do to Arri's line-up -- most people don't go for the bigger ones if they don't have to, despite the frame rate differences... Ironically, while the Minis usually cost a chunk more than the regular versions, Komodo is what? 1/3rd the cost of the next RED up? Hell, RED's average upgrade prices are substantially *more* than an entirely shootable Komodo. Gnarly.

    Conversely, if there was a DSMC1/2 trade-in to Komodo, that would be kinda awesome. Direct trade for any flavour of Dragon would have a lot of people sweating; do you give up HFR for the dozen or so additional benefits of Komodo? Probably.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 06-02-2020 at 11:38 AM.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Andrew R Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Pretty sure resale is going to take a beating (especially DSMC1).

    You can maybe bank on 8k and HFR, but outside of that, it's a super light weight, easily powered, non-proprietary media RED, with (apparently) all the DR of its bigger brothers... Plus it has autofocus, built-in screen/control, wireless everything, adaptable to any mount (some speedboosted)...OH and Global Shutter! It's a hard sell to go with a bigger, heavier, slower version of that. In other words, why would you go with the more cumbersome platform that costs ~2~5x?

    I said it before, but I think Komodo will do to the RED line-up what the Minis do to Arri's line-up -- most people don't go for the bigger ones if they don't have to, despite the frame rate differences... Ironically, while the Minis usually cost a chunk more than the regular versions, Komodo is what? 1/3rd the cost of the next RED up? Hell, RED's average upgrade prices are substantially *more* than an entirely shootable Komodo. Gnarly.

    Conversely, if there was a DSMC1/2 trade-in to Komodo, that would be kinda awesome. Direct trade for any flavour of Dragon would have a lot of people sweating; do you give up HFR for the dozen or so additional benefits of Komodo? Probably.
    This is definitely not a one or the other situation for most current DSMC2 owners. This is additional camera.
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  8. #18  
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    Oh I hear ya. I was referring to the OP about the secondary market, but to be fair there's probably less of an incentive for current owners to buy used with Komodo out and about... Like as a DSMC2 owner, are you gonna spring for a second used DSMC2 body if you need a B-cam/back-up/second body, or get a shiny new Komodo for the same price to supplement your shooting needs? (The "one or other" in this case is "used DSCM1 or 2" vs "new Komodo"... And in that case I think the outlier will be opting for a used DSMC1/2.)

    Bare in mind, this is all grain-of-salt talk (haven't seen footage; maybe the other shoe will drop and the camera will have a major hinderance that makes it moot), but I have a feeling Komodo is gonna hammer used prices for anything Dragon sensor or older, and actually put the squeeze on Gemini resale value. For all we know, Komodo can do 5k/96fps, which would basically put Gemini in a wonky spot of costing a lot more but providing little. Even low-light is potentially better on Komodo what with Focal Reducer support.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 06-03-2020 at 03:43 PM.
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  9. #19  
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    I do think it'll depress the secondary market. I myself had been kicking the tires and thinking about used DSMC1 Dragon (still like the look) or DSMC2 Scarlet W/Dragon X last fall, but decided to hold off when I learned about Komodo.

    I'm eagerly waiting to see how the Komodo measures up (#1 image quality, #2 A-cam usability). But if it's on par, I'd have to think hard about whether the frame rates of a DSMC justify the significant extra expenditure in accessories. I don't really do sports stuff-- so maybe a DSMC is an occasional rental item for music videos/fashion? DSMC will likely remain superior for working with a bigger crew but, rather than buy that class of camera, I imagine I'll better off doing what I do now: renting the right camera for the circumstances. Komodo will be the ticket for smaller jobs that can't afford a $1k+ (all in) rental package. (That's what the used DSMC was gonna be for-- the "ok, let's make this work" deal.)
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  10. #20  
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    Thanks for all the responses – plenty of valid arguments for every position.

    I have a Gemini that has taken over as A-Cam in the past year and have been using the Epic-D as a B-Cam mostly in interviews but also handheld and occasionally on gimbal. Ultimately, I'm thinking of cutting the Dragon package loose in hopes of at least covering the cost of a Komodo brain so there are no delusions of grandeur on what the market is at the moment – it's more trying to discern how Komodo is going to affect the DSMC market.
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