Thread: Thinking of buying a RED

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  1. #41  
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    With your post production schedule would you have the capability to store/edit/color .r3d files? Though you can shoot pro res files (simultainiously even) you would save precious time messing with the touch screen to change your white balance.
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  2. #42  
    Member Kerry Lofton's Avatar
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    I should be able to. I have a pretty good laptop that that was purchased last year that didn’t give me any issues with editing 4K video on the fly. I am planning on downloading some of the sample R3D files to do some tests. Proxies would work also as these are only clips for social (IG/Twitter/FB) and then I could still have the full raw files for my editing throughout the week which is done on a Mac Pro and not as tight as a turnaround. So I’m not too terribly worried about it.

    Based on the many replies here, my biggest concerns and hiccups left are

    1) battery life. We have a ton of gold mounts, but I need to figure out how long each one lasts just so I know how many batteries I’ll be going through.
    2) Variable frame rate audio - one thing I haven’t found in my research is if the scarlet w still records audio at higher frame rates.
    3) price- my budget is around $10k. Though I don’t need a ton, it’s still hard to find everything in that range. I’ve been talking to a few people on here about what they’re selling and looking at full RTS kits vs buying bits and pieces from various sources. All seems to come out to be about the same. But I’m probably going to have to wait a bit more to save up since it’s looking like $10k May be too low for a scarlet-W

    Besides that, not really worried about the workflow anymore, not worried about the low light stuff, not worried about the camera keeping up or even the hard drive space for all the footage. Autofocus worries me a bit as well but honestly as good as it was on the Sony A7, i found myself getting screwed by it sometimes when a lot was going on in the frame so I’m planning to invest in a good follow focus and trust myself over autofocus anyway
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  3. #43  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio Perez View Post
    Have to disagree. Lacks frame rates.
    I agree with you Komodo would not be useful for me at least vs say a Helium
    www.ObergWildlife.com- Natural History Filmmaking
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  4. #44  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    All the things that you mention you can do with a Red. You do not need a crew for operating a Red. Red has fantastic images, fantastic slow motion.
    There are a few things that could give you problems
    - Do you need to record audio at the same time? With Red you pretty much need a dual recorder.
    - Red makes a bit of sound from the fan, would this be a problem?
    - Can you handle the battery requirements. About 1 v-mount per hour. Canon has less for example.
    - Do you need auto focus? Red does not really have that on Helium or Gemini
    - Can you handle editing the Red files in post? The Red files are very flexible and can be used on a surprising amount of hardware. You can for example edit live in 1/4 resolution in Resolve on the latest Macbook Pro. Transcoding will be a bit snapper but is not a must.
    - Can you afford the extras? You can buy many of the accessories used which can help get the price down

    If you are ok with the above then I think Red will give you more flexibility than almost any other camera out there. More fun in grading, more slow motion, more flexibility in changing the configuration.

    Hope that helps!
    Andreas
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  5. #45  
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    [QUOTE=Kerry Lofton;1898425]

    Based on the many replies here, my biggest concerns and hiccups left are

    2) Variable frame rate audio - one thing I haven’t found in my research is if the scarlet w still records audio at higher frame rates.

    No audio is recorded at the overcranked frame rates.

    3) price- my budget is around $10k.

    $10k will get you a Scarlet W brain for sure....DSMC2 is great, and will help future proof the investment. But you could get an Epic Dragon 6K simple kit for close to that price I would think. You can't shoot pro res, or do ipp2 in camera but I'm not sure if thats a deal breaker for you.
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  6. #46  
    Member Kerry Lofton's Avatar
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    Andreas - was just chatting with someone about a few of those things. You can add audio to my list of concerns. Hmmm my plan was to use the base expander and the wooden camera a box to do a shotgun mic on the camera. Audio is super important for a lot of the stuff I do. Players will often speak to my camera and I need to be able to use that audio. I’ve been seeing that even with the base expander, the audio coming out is not really clean. That worries me. For some projects, recording externally and syncing will be nothing more than an extra step but for a bulk of what I do, I won’t have time to offload and try to sync audio on the fly. This could be a potential deal breaker for me. Same with the fan noise. Again, sometimes we’ll have players candidly speak into the camera. Or I’ll go into the locker room postgame and capture the coaches speech to the team. Last thing I want is a fan being a distraction or ruining my audio.

    I can handle the batter requirements. For games we travel with a ton of Anton gold mounts that are constantly being switched out at a charging station. I’ll have access to plenty.

    I was a bit worried about autofocus because I pretty much always had it on on my Sony but to be quite honest, it’s screwed me a lot. I found myself fighting with it on my longer lens, especially for on field stuff. The line of scrimmage gets really jumbled when I try to focus on on a particular detail such as the ball pre snap or a foot or hand. So I’m not too worried about going manual. Especially cause I’ll be on shoulder mount with an EVF and follow focus. Will definitely miss having it but I just see it as me learning to be a better shoot by not relying on autofocus and learning to pull it manually. Not ideal but not the end of the world

    And to respond to you and Rob about the budget and the accessories. I’m starting to worry a bit. The brain is not the problem. But man some of these accessories are kicking my budgets butt. I have some extra projects coming that may be able to help and I don’t need much, but the things I do need (opting for the 7 inch monitor over the 4.7, the EVF, the red side handle, the base expander, the extra memory) adds up quick. Makes me wonder if I’m in over my head. I’m afraid to buy an older model just cause it’s pushing my luck and having pro red would be nice.

    The only saving grace for me in trying to make this work is I look at my other options and I’m in the same boat. Sony fx9 is running around 13-15k to get up and running and that’s not including getting the monitor and module for even being able to record 6k. The c500 mark 2 is about the same, ursa mini comes in at $10k with a lot more drawbacks. And the pocket cams are not really an option for me. So I keep telling myself, may as well suck it up and by the red.
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  7. #47  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    If not RED, and there have been many good comments on the pros and cons, what about a combo of an EVA1 and an S1? I have the EVA1 for the types of run and gun shoots you are talking about. The internal codecs are lightweight in terms of file size and if you pair it with an Atomos recorder you get 5.7k ProRes RAW if you need it or can go straight to ProRes HQ. It can be modded to use PL mount if that is your preferred lens mount. Battery life is great! Frame rates in 4k up to 60fps with HVEC codec, record 240fps in 2k on atomos.

    The S1 cuts well with it and could be your gimbal camera. Feel free to contact me if you have questions. These cameras can be found used for $4-5k now.

    I would think the color science would be good enough straight out of camera for what you are filming. Audio is good. Not as good as a separate audio recorder but perfect for what you are talking about.
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  8. #48  
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    I would definitely not go RED unless you build it out with a host of accessories. The main drawback of RED for RandG is the inability of buttons and built in functions.
    Internal ND? nope. Gotta lug around filters.
    Auto WB? Nada.
    Quickly change shutter speed, frame rate, compression ratio? > Laggy UI.
    Sometimes just hitting record is slow to respond.
    It can be very awkward to handhold for long periods of time without a shoulder rig- my arms have given out several times
    The normal monitor sucks for daytime brightness
    Onboard audio? I haven't found a super streamlined solution
    You need beefy batteries and it eats them up relatively quick

    All the times I've had problems with my RED were RandG scenarios. At a wedding I had the camera shut off because i wasn't accurately monitoring power and ruined a clip. (def my fault, but a crew would've helped)

    I set it down too hard (cuz my arms gave out) and the matte box popped off and broke a filterĖIt's not a light camera.

    Fs7 or c100-500 cameras seem way more in line with the RandG style.

    Don't get me wrong I love my RED. The enormous amount of flexibility you get with R3d's in post is single-handedly a huge pro for RandG situations, but IMHO the drawbacks will need to be thoughtfully considered before a purchase.

    My fav RandG setup with RED is Tilta Nucleus M handgrips with a shoulder Rig and small HD 702 bright and bright tangerine clip-on matte box. Def heavy but the focus/aperture controls at your fingertips is dope and bright monitor is clutch.


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  9. #49  
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    For sports coverage I would maybe go Sony F5 / F55 (is there any difference between these two models anymore, F5 enabled 4k awhile back I think?). I'd think that one of these is sub $10k used.

    It's great in low light, not power hungry, has an ENG camera body, decent audio options and importantly it's not heavy. With the lens mount system you can get anything on there. PL, B4, etc. My only complaint shooting sports doco / eng with that camera is it also has a long boot up time like the red before you can be recording.

    Another nice choice might be the Varicam LT, though I have no idea the price on those on the used/new market right now.

    Not as sexy as RED, and I don't think the picture is as nice...but it will be quite a bit easier to work with on your shoulder all day.
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  10. #50  
    Senior Member Alex Lubensky's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=RobMNeilson;1898477]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Lofton View Post

    Based on the many replies here, my biggest concerns and hiccups left are

    2) Variable frame rate audio - one thing I havenít found in my research is if the scarlet w still records audio at higher frame rates.

    No audio is recorded at the overcranked frame rates.

    .
    Wrong here. If you set the project frame rate the same as desired FPS speed you totally get audio. Say you want to go 50 fps with audio - just set your project time base to 50fps also and gotcha.
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