Thread: Kinefinity MAVO Edge

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  1. #151  
    Senior Member Chris McKechnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Garcia-Diaz View Post
    Rand: what's your opinion on ProRes Raw & highlight recovery? Seems pretty good from the images you posted.
    ProRes RAW won't have the latitude that RED RAW, ArriRaw or even CDNG have in terms of highlight recovery. It's a "fake" version of RAW, not even allowing you to change basic metadata settings like ISO and WB. So while you have a little bit more flexibility, most people will find it isn't worth the effort of adding a recorder, media, bulk, etc., as the cons far outweigh the pros. There are several you tubers who did comparison with even Sony SLOG 2 and PRR...and you'd be surprised, PRR didn't look all that great.
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  2. #152  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris McKechnie View Post
    ProRes RAW won't have the latitude that RED RAW, ArriRaw or even CDNG have in terms of highlight recovery. It's a "fake" version of RAW, not even allowing you to change basic metadata settings like ISO and WB. So while you have a little bit more flexibility, most people will find it isn't worth the effort of adding a recorder, media, bulk, etc., as the cons far outweigh the pros. There are several you tubers who did comparison with even Sony SLOG 2 and PRR...and you'd be surprised, PRR didn't look all that great.
    Chris,

    That's why I want to see some tests done with the two codecs capturing the same image and processed in post.
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  3. #153  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Carlos,


    Here's the test I mentioned earlier.


    First, Here again is a R3D frame grab by Luigi. I intentionally pushed the highlights up to give the impression to the casual viewer of an image with unrecoverable highlights.




    However, if you look at the Parade Scope, the highlights are not clipped at all and easily recoverable.









    Next, here is one of the ProRes Raw files that looks like the highlights should be completely unrecoverable.





    However, if you look at the Parade Scope and Histogram, the highlights are not clipped at all and easily recoverable.






    Last edited by rand thompson; 05-08-2020 at 12:49 PM.
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  4. #154  
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    I'm far from protectionist but I would not like to see Kinefinity become the DJI of cinema cameras. The drone market is more or less a monopoly at this point. DJI makes great products but it is not in anyone's best interest to have China be the gatekeeper for another type of tech product.
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  5. #155  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Med D,


    I hear what you are saying, and with the Social/Economical/Political climate between the US and China the way it is now an possibly will be for the immediate future and beyond, who knows if this camera will be available at the price stated by September it's expected release date, or even available at all.

    However, the undeniable truth about it is that people will do what's in their own best interest. If the camera does everything it says it will and deliver a high quality image, not a lot of potential customers are going to let their patriotism defer them from purchasing this product.


    We also have to push our US companies and our more favorable US trading partners to step it up as well and not let them just sit around resting on their laurels either.
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  6. #156  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Here's a webinar on Advanced Exposure techniques for the Kinefinity Mavo Lf which should also apply to the Mavo Edge.


    Advanced Exposure Techniques Masterclass - Webinar - Kinefinity MAVO LF


    By Kinefinity Europe


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  7. #157  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    Here's a webinar on Advanced Exposure techniques for the Kinefinity Mavo Lf which should also apply to the Mavo Edge.


    Advanced Exposure Techniques Masterclass - Webinar - Kinefinity MAVO LF


    By Kinefinity Europe


    Strange test. Testing a sensor DR by changing the shutter speed ?

    I don't understand why Kinefinity evalutated wrongly their base iso to 800iso? It looks like all settings are better when set to 1600iso!

    800iso gives them +4.3 -9.7 stops
    1600 would be more acceptable with +5.3 and -8.7

    Why the hell do all manufacturer want to have 800 iso as base? They all love to have clipping images? To loose against the Arri hoax?
    Arri does it because their sensor is awfull in lowlight so I understand! But all other manufacturers have modern tech and their sensor are much more sensitive than 800iso.

    I'm also impressed how they managed to make things soooo complicated with ETTL EI Highlight settings... People thought RED was complicated with the iso metadata settings and different color science but here Kinefinity will crash their audience with annoying questions. Why not just use ISO to change how your camera interpretes light? Why did they need to bring sooo many different things that basically are an Iso tweak?

    It all comes down to how you want to map your DR. More highlight protection or cleanest image possible?


    Pat
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  8. #158  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Patrick,


    HaHaHaHa,

    Yeah, the sensor has a limited dynamic range like all other cameras but I guess they do try to give you the choice of how you want to distribute it in any given situation .

    Maybe the 800 Iso has been found by most camera manufacturers to be the "sweet spot" for the dynamic range of their camera, I'm just guessing. Or maybe the 800 Iso is some sort of recognized Standard from which most Cinematographers base their exposure, who knows.

    I think , along with their method of redistributing the dynamic range of the camera, a better log conversion Lut would also help with a better/softer Highlight Roll-off.
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  9. #159  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    The problem is that the 800iso became a convention wich has nothing to do with the physics of each particular sensor. You could probably tailor a sensor to get 800 base iso but it's not what I see beeing the best setting of many cameras (including RED) if you want to chase for the bigger DR when your clipping point is the reference (wich became a strange de facto benchmark).
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  10. #160  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Patrick,

    In my own personally experience I only use 800 ISO for grading red footage, and if I actually owned a Red camera, I would base getting a good exposure from that. Now in a camera like the Mavo LF and potentially the Mavo Edge, a 1600 ISO that comes from negative gain from a higher Native ISO would probably look better than a 1600 ISO from positive gain from a lower Native ISO . In that case, I would want to use a 1600 ISO and not the 800 ISO which would be the native and last ISO setting of the camera's sensor before digital gain was being added.
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