KOMODO....

[Gregory Karydis]

If i can obtain a Komodo, im one that will not rig it for an A camera but rather have it a pick up and go or director b or c cam, occasionally use it on stage rigs too as i do a lot fo those netflix stand up shows...that being said, im looking to find a happy medium btwn quality and size for a nice wide lens, not super wide, 18-24mm in s35 equivalent, wide enough to be a lens that lives on the camera but keeps everything small. i see pictures of people using that zeiss 21mm with a leica mount, but im definitely looking to either be PL mount or native RF. any suggestions? cine wide pirmes the size on an old super speed?

There's talk of an upcoming RF 13-21mm f/2.8L lens...
And since it's an L, I expect weather sealing.

But maybe we should hope for an RF native pancake lens...?

...
Native RF, more glass coming really in that range. Just can't really talk about it yet.

I missed that.

[jordan levy]

PL Mount

Small in size in that realm: Sigma Cine 20mm T1.5 or 24mm T1.5

A smidge slower, but lighter weight = Zeiss CP.3 18mm, 21mm T2.9 or the 25mm T2.1.

Xenon FF-Primes are probably still in the small range you're hoping for, Tokina's 18mm T1.5 is a big lens however, etc.... I think the popular 18-35 Sigma zoom will find new life on Komodo for sure.

With Komodo being a S35+ sensor really anything S35 in PL is ideal from K35s to Super Speeds.


Native RF, more glass coming really in that range. Just can't really talk about it yet.

thank you so much for the quick reponse, so yeah, im not really a fan of the sigmas or the cps, but maybe the Xenon FF-Primes. i love k35s and super speeds, but i dont think that would be a main lens for me, i usually use them for specialty type shoots because they arent the sharpest tools n the shed.

how about cooke s4 or cooke minis?

[jordan levy]

There's talk of an upcoming RF 13-21mm f/2.8L lens...
And since it's an L, I expect weather sealing.

But maybe we should hope for an RF native pancake lens...?



I missed that.

i wonder how big that 13-21 would be in comparison, sounds kind of interesting.

[Gregory Karydis]

i wonder how big that 13-21 would be in comparison, sounds kind of interesting.

considering you won't need an adapter and the mirrorless RF design allows for elements to extend closer to the sensor, I hope not that big! :)

[Luke Marcus Rosen]

The normal Komodos will be black :)

Pricing for normal Komodos is holding steady... The Stormtroopers we are fighting to stay within that $1k premium as we keep throwing money at a broken supply chain.. miraculously we have so far... I just don't want to commit to that just yet because it's a pretty massive shit-show out there right now, and the next couple weeks will be telling.

I remember this mentioned some time ago: but any word on the timeframe between Stormtroopers shipping and normal units shipping? Let's not predict this coming cycle due to Komodovirus, but what has been the history of a camera launch after the first wave of Stormtroopers? How long should we expect? $1K-ish extra for a camera 3 months out (let's say) is not a steep ask and I don't mind paying to be early.

[Carlos_Crespo]

Except they don't! If you look at some of the more in depth reviews (Sean Reid for example or Jono Slack) then the SLs don't perform as well as M at the edges because the stack is still too thick. This is the whole Kolari stack replacement market.

Having said that the SLs perform well compared to most other cameras and we could be splitting hairs, but no RAW and i'm not interested. I can so much more with RAW.

But the inter webs are full of people proclaiming their a7s do well then posting pictures which clearly show the opposite!

So i am still waiting to experiment with the fp or find someone that breaks one down to see what the stack is!

Jarred mentioned the ms optics 28mm and that would have some pretty shallow rays out the back of it - so that's a positive sign!

cheers
Paul

We weren't talking about the M, but cameras that can handle M wide angle lenses. The M camera is logically the first choice, but AFTER the M the SL is unquestionably the first alternative. Never used the SL for Video, only for my commercial still work. The SL2 may change this as a B cam to Komodo..

[Lee Saxon]

considering you won't need an adapter and the mirrorless RF design allows for elements to extend closer to the sensor, I hope not that big! :)

You can say much about Canon's RF lenses so far, but "compact" ain't one of 'em. I don't understand why they've made the mirrorless bodies so small for those of us with big hands, knowing lenses wouldn't be getting any smaller. At least Nikon started with the fairly compact 1.8 primes that give mirrorless size some reason for being - though so many people have instantly maligned Nikon for releasing "cheap" and "mediocre" lenses because of it even though they're excellent.

[Luke Marcus Rosen]

Stormtrooper REDs usually signal pre-production. It's impossible to predict how the next stage will go, because literally everything could go wrong, but if you look back historically and use Helium as a reference, We went from Stormtrooper Heliums to shipping to normal Heliums everyone 3-4 months later.

I have answered my own question. Finally figured out how to use the search thread button successfully! Baby steps.

[Alex Stolpakov]

PL Mount

Small in size in that realm: Sigma Cine 20mm T1.5 or 24mm T1.5
A smidge slower, but lighter weight = Zeiss CP.3 18mm, 21mm T2.9 or the 25mm T2.1.
Xenon FF-Primes are probably still in the small range you're hoping for, Tokina's 18mm T1.5 is a big lens however, etc.... I think the popular 18-35 Sigma zoom will find new life on Komodo for sure.
With Komodo being a S35+ sensor really anything S35 in PL is ideal from K35s to Super Speeds.
Native RF, more glass coming really in that range. Just can't really talk about it yet.

How many of those RF glass, will be the same league as native PL MOUNT ?

WHY not give an example to all the world of what you can do, to watch in theatre (hassle free thousand, aka PL mount) to other 100 thousand owners with RF mount and all the glass in out there?

Some cough crippled most of the world? DMC3?

How many millions $$$ in PL glass in firms that pitch cameras also?

[Phil Holland]

How many of those RF glass, will be the same league as native PL MOUNT ?

Not clear on your last couple of points, but I referenced every PL mount lens there, but he was looking for a relatively small PL lens in size.

In terms of feature film work, I haven't shot a single image of anything RF mount to end up on the big screen yet, it's too new and sort of um.... waiting for a camera to do that with :)

If referencing other non-PL mount lenses I've used for work that's ended up in theaters, here's the quick list of stuff I've used for plates, VFX, or just general stuff:
- Canon EF
- Nikon F
- Olympus OM
- Leica-R
- Leica-M
- Mamiya 645
- Hasselblad 500

In terms of shear optical quality as many have discovered some of the less expensive lenses outperform much, much higher end glass on an optical level, perhaps more importantly is the insane technical accomplishments some of the top tier lens manufacturers have achieved recently with high quality and hard to manufacturer aspherical or multi-aspherical designs. That doesn't mean there aren't a million reasons to shoot with a quality PL set. I use PL mostly for what I do because its' a robust and sturdy mount, cinema optics typically have much better mechanics, no image shift, build quality, consistent character ideally across a set of glass, heck if it's me I prefer a set of consistent T stops across primes too.

For me though, no matter what lenses I'm using for a shoot or even an individual shot, it starts with the look and then I go from there. I really enjoy working the Summilux-Cs for instance for their cleaner modern look, but I actually really like the Cooke S4s too because they are not that.

Like a set of Super Speeds isn't going to out resolve a set of Sigma Cine Primes for instance (<=140lp/mm versus 200+lp/mm and way better control over aberations, heh, and no plastic lenses involved *snicker*). But if you are choosing Super Speeds you are after their look more than anything these days.

There's weirder stuff in there that I have a lot of personal experience with that mirrors many DPs experiences too. Like Master Primes are phenomenal, but that 50mm is weird and most will go wider or longer as the 65mm T1.3 is a very nice lens and performs on par with the rest of the set.


I guess if you are looking for a major pro for the RF, though it sounds like that doesn't interest you, bare in mind that with the right lens your camera can be shorter than the camera with a PL Mount on there even. I don't need to repeat it really, but Komodo from the ground up is designed to be very small. That's very clear. And who knows, they might do a PL mount version for sure. But you'll have to answer if losing the possibility of going to any shorter flange distance mounts will be worth it in a camera that inspires creative use cases. It will be for some. With Komodo as it is now, RED has gone with the PL Adapter route. And ideally when it extra support is needed, rig it out with a support plate and foot. Heck leave it rigged that way if that's what you always use. In the DSMC2 world we do have interchangeable mounts and I hope that continues with DSMC3, hopefully now that the mount standard for RF exists RED can also make the bigger cameras compatible there too.

It's so weird when people want less options when it comes to the creative and technical lens solutions you can come up with, but there's certainly room for "just PL" in some worlds. Likely not a sub-$10K camera though. I mean most people in that pricing tier don't own PL glass for instance. But they do own EF and others for sure.