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  1. #4291  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    IMO, the Sigma CINE primes are the reference point I use to judge the value of lens sets. All the lower cost options have compromises the Sigmas do not. The Sigmas fast apertures, color matching within the 10 primary focal lengths, small size, build quality, precise mechanics, cammed focus and consistency of rendition are class leading. Yes, they are a bit too clean and sharp for some projects - but there are filters and a host of techniques for adding flavor (I know, that is not the same thing as interactive internal flares and other analog characteristics intrinsic to some lens designs).

    Sets in a similar class, like the Tokina Vistas and the CP.3s, each have caveats. The CP.3s are a mix of optical designs that don't always match well and WFO varies pretty dramatically. The Tokina Vistas are quite nice with good build quality and a consistent look across the set. They are bit more expensive - just under $50K for a 7 lens set (10 lens Sigma set is $35K). For me, the final nail is their size - with the cameras getting ever smaller and gimbals everywhere, the Tokina Vistas are larger then I want in my quiver - especially for the tiny Komodo. YMMV.

    Cheers - #19
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  2. #4292  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    A wise lens wizard who lived atop a volcanic glass mountain with a molten core forging new elaborate and geometrically challenging aspherical lenses who was rumored to spit optical cement and cried mists of tiers to coat his creations once told me:

    Easy to dirty up a modern lens with a clean look, impossible to clean up a funky lens to create a modern look.

    I own a fair mix of both lanes, but you know most of the time I'm filming cleaner than not for most of what I do.

    Personally I don't mind the larger lenses and that alludes to where I am often swapping between the Tokinas and Sigmas is when size is a bigger consideration. They do have different looks if you are one to really run your mind though each and there is a difference in pure image quality, but they are both really good sets at very good prices. Mentioned it above, but way off the field of the look over those cleaner primes in December I started filming a project on Xenons and they once again have seduced me with their charm. That whole shoot will be on those. Likely my next hooch related commercials too.

    I still whip out the Otus, though they've been more for stills in the last couples years more than anything as PL VV glass has become much more available. They've lived on my 5DsR and A7RII/III/IV when not on my VV. I've shot a couple projects exclusively on the trio of Otus prior to the 100mm launch on VV though and it's real hard to argue against that 55mm IMO.

    Schneider get me closer to what I love about Leica-R-land overall with lots of matched glass in a decent range of lengths (I don't like the Leica-R 19mm f/2.8 for instance). The other sets I have are cleaner or even funkier basically.

    I mean it's insane though. You can put a whole set of glass together Cine-Modded up for $1K-$2K via eBay or go with the various Kiev options. Younger filmmakers have a lot of possibilities and can grow as their needs do. It was harder when things like eBay didn't exist for sure. Interestingly the big change there too is sets like Super Speeds and K35s used to go for $3-$5K, but those days are no longer. The market grew and older glass in relationship to that is much more limited in supply considering the potential marketplace.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  3. #4293  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    IMO, the Sigma CINE primes are the reference point I use to judge the value of lens sets. All the lower cost options have compromises the Sigmas do not. The Sigmas fast apertures, color matching within the 10 primary focal lengths, small size, build quality, precise mechanics, cammed focus and consistency of rendition are class leading. Yes, they are a bit too clean and sharp for some projects - but there are filters and a host of techniques for adding flavor (I know, that is not the same thing as interactive internal flares and other analog characteristics intrinsic to some lens designs).

    Sets in a similar class, like the Tokina Vistas and the CP.3s, each have caveats. The CP.3s are a mix of optical designs that don't always match well and WFO varies pretty dramatically. The Tokina Vistas are quite nice with good build quality and a consistent look across the set. They are bit more expensive - just under $50K for a 7 lens set (10 lens Sigma set is $35K). For me, the final nail is their size - with the cameras getting ever smaller and gimbals everywhere, the Tokina Vistas are larger then I want in my quiver - especially for the tiny Komodo. YMMV.

    Cheers - #19
    Have you used the Otus? Wonder how that'd quiver your arrow.
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  4. #4294  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dease View Post
    Have you used the Otus? Wonder how that'd quiver your arrow.
    If you are looking for a hard fight between the two, comparing the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 to the Sigma Art 40mm f/1.4 (or Sigma Cine 40mm T1.5) is a hard decision if you need to choose just one.

    And of course the Sigma is available in PL with a proper cinema housing as well as a part of much fuller cinema-minded set.

    The Supremes are sort of that for Zeiss in this playing field.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  5. #4295  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    If you are looking for a hard fight between the two, comparing the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 to the Sigma Art 40mm f/1.4 (or Sigma Cine 40mm T1.5) is a hard decision if you need to choose just one.

    And of course the Sigma is available in PL with a proper cinema housing as well as a part of much fuller cinema-minded set.

    The Supremes are sort of that for Zeiss in this playing field.
    Yes the certain Youtuber online review or comparison between the Otus 55 and Sigma 50 show they are close. But there is a quality to the Otus (as you clearly know, by you many nice Otus videos) that I don't feel the Sigmas have. However both have value and both are very reasonably if not low priced for what they are. So I was actually asking what Blair through of the Otus. They have a "look" and actually using the 55 on a Helium shoot, when cropping in to 2k for ultra slo mo, it seemed like a "FF" prime... at 2k. Meaning the quality drop at 2k was nowhere near as bad as I've always experienced. Thats pretty incredible. If I had a choice between the Sigmas maybe 7-10 lens set, or the Otus 4, it'd be a very hard choice. Would probably go Zeiss.
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  6. #4296  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
    I know... I have one. It does have great image quality, even though it doesn't have log encoding yet. I haven't tried the 8 bit raw yet, because my SD cards aren't fast enough, and I just leave it on 12-bit when I have my T5 connected. Even the All-I footage looks very good though.
    Beautiful yes, but it doesn't fit well into a film production. Not having timecode is a drag.
    Yep... lots of gotchas for professional work. It also has no 24fps mode, and I don't like that Sigma doesn't think that 24fps is important, or DCI aspect ratios...
    I hope so also. If it does, I'll sell my Sigma as soon as I get my Komodo. :)
    You don't want or need log encoding if you can record RAW. The 8 bit RAW files have a tone curve in them for compression anyway.
    There's no point recording anything other than RAW off these things - i don't think any of the mov formats are worthwhile.
    It does have timecode, but it's not ideal. You can do an audio thing with a tentacle. The DNG files retain the timecode though (the WAV files don't which is a bug)
    You can do 24p in 10 bit or 8 bit. Just the 12 bit is limited. I believe this will be addressed in time though. Get a fast SDXC card and do side by sides, you will be surprised.

    One thing about the sigma is that it is quite difficult finding a camera that works well with wide angle M lenses because of the filter stacks. I don't know what the stack is on the sigma but it *appears* to work well. I suspect that on Komodo the stack is thicker because it *will* have an OLPF and is designed for motion. So we will need to wait to see how M mount lenses work on it - that would prevent it being a stills combo for me.

    Cheers
    Paul
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  7. #4297  
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    That custom for Lana Wachowski is incredible man! It reminds me of a custom 'RED TACO CAM' that we designed last year in C4D for my agency. What are the odds of getting custom orders in for the Komodo? 5:1, 10:1? maybe 10000000:1?



    https://www.instagram.com/p/B9g9oornrSE/
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  8. #4298  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Boot time is looking pretty good. Under 30 sec - assuming it only takes a couple seconds to load the ice cream graphic: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9eurzOB..._web_copy_link
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  9. #4299  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulcurtis View Post

    One thing about the sigma is that it is quite difficult finding a camera that works well with wide angle M lenses because of the filter stacks. I don't know what the stack is on the sigma but it *appears* to work well. I suspect that on Komodo the stack is thicker because it *will* have an OLPF and is designed for motion. So we will need to wait to see how M mount lenses work on it - that would prevent it being a stills combo for me.

    Cheers
    Paul
    The Leica SL and now the new Leica SL2 handles perfectly the M wide angle lenses (with the M-L Adapter). In fact, that sensor has been specifically adapted to. The SL2 has a really gorgeous image and pops in a unique way I haven't seen in any DSLM so far. It doesn't shoot RAW, but at least you get 4K 10Bit 4:2:2 up to 30p and 4:2:0 up to 60p internally and 4K 10Bit 4:2:2 60p externally through a Ninja V for example. All that by using almost the whole FF sensor width.
    Jarred mentioned that Komodo has a fixed OLPF, so the filter in front of the sensor is likely going to be thicker than the one on the SL. If that's the case, the wide M lenses could become indeed problematic...we'll see.
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  10. #4300  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    IMO, the Sigma CINE primes are the reference point I use to judge the value of lens sets. All the lower cost options have compromises the Sigmas do not. The Sigmas fast apertures, color matching within the 10 primary focal lengths, small size, build quality, precise mechanics, cammed focus and consistency of rendition are class leading. Yes, they are a bit too clean and sharp for some projects - but there are filters and a host of techniques for adding flavor (I know, that is not the same thing as interactive internal flares and other analog characteristics intrinsic to some lens designs).

    Sets in a similar class, like the Tokina Vistas and the CP.3s, each have caveats. The CP.3s are a mix of optical designs that don't always match well and WFO varies pretty dramatically. The Tokina Vistas are quite nice with good build quality and a consistent look across the set. They are bit more expensive - just under $50K for a 7 lens set (10 lens Sigma set is $35K). For me, the final nail is their size - with the cameras getting ever smaller and gimbals everywhere, the Tokina Vistas are larger then I want in my quiver - especially for the tiny Komodo. YMMV.

    Cheers - #19
    I have rented once the Sigma FF cine primes and they had quite some focus breathing. Maybe I just had tough luck and I should give it another try since so many here seem to like them. I do like the Tokina Vistas look and build quality. But for Komodo they would make the combo quite front heavy..I gave up the plan to use my Otus set for the same reason...
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