Thread: Helium or Gemini?

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  1. #1 Helium or Gemini? 
    I'm a Scarlet-W owner, and now it's time to upgrade with a new RED. Gemini is the monster of the dark, larger sensor, highest frame rate @ 5K, and Helium is 8K, with a good 60fps @ 8K. My idea is to buy this new camera with a zoom Angenieux 30-90 T2, wich is the best combo? My idea is to be ready for the 8k, but is really to bad with low light??
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  2. #2  
    To me the Gemini just looks better. The higher-ISO capabilities are nice but even under normal exposure scenarios, I like the colors & highlight retention more on the Gemini. I shot a film in December with Gemini as A-cam and Helium as B-cam
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  3. #3  
    Higher resolution or better quality.
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  4. #4  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Pretty much a question I get asked a few times a week and there really hasn't been one real trend or another sprouting from it.

    So, here's some good info.

    First and format, take a look at this format size comparison:
    http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/...&focalLengths=

    I'll start with frame rate, you've seen the max formats above and you know what they top out at, but also keep in mind that at 5K that have the same max frame rates at two very different format sizes, here's both 5K FF formats:
    http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/...&focalLengths=

    That's where a lot of peeps get sort of stuck because that crop on Helium is notable, essentially a bit smaller than Academy 35mm.


    Quick summary of my personal take:

    Gemini Pros
    - Better full height anamorphic support
    - Cleaner in Low Light compared to Helium
    - Larger format at 5K and larger format at max FPS

    Helium Pros
    - 8K Resolution capable at up to 60p
    - 8K to 4K downsample is a sexy thing IMO
    - It is the highest resolution S35 sensor in a digital cinema camera


    I wouldn't say Helium is really "bad" in low light, but more or less the breakdown is Monstro is the cleanest at max res and then it goes to Gemini and likely the newer Dragon 6K option and then Helium in terms of cleanliness. Haven't tested out the latest Dragon 6K, it's just hitting people now, but it's already pretty good in low light at 5K and 6K.
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  5. #5  
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    This is why we need an 8k resolution upgrade for gemini sensor for DSMC3 (Hint Hint Jared.....) or I guess I will just have upgrade to Monstro eventually, but its not a camera for everyones budget and clients (including mine really).

    In my experience, (I Own Gemini 5K) and have used Dragon 6k, Helium 8k, etc. side by side, and Gemini simply to my eyes outperforms Helium and Dragon in my opinion in (Low-Light run and gun, better shadows detail and highlight rolloff, more neutral skin tones out of the gate, less crop at high frame rates, etc.). Other than offering a higher resolution 6-8k recording format there is no other advantage visible to Dragon or Helium. I shoot a lot of high frame rates so the fact the Gemini has minimal crop when shooting 5k/24 fps vs 5k/120 fps is a big deal for me and I am sure some others out there that do a lot of action / high frame rate B-roll scenes.

    That being said, there is a noticeable difference in 8K vs 6k vs 5K for wide/landscapes and shots with a lot of detail (i.e. shooting nature vs. close-ups of faces) and downsampling from 8K-4k definitely has its benefits. If I were filming a wildlife documentary that may be an area where I would rent a Helium for A-Cam over my Gemini as B-Cam.

    Just my 2 cents on personal experience.
    R3D DSMC2 GEMINI
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  6. #6  
    Thanks a lot for your comments guys, i think i will buy the Gemini, cheaper and better for many reasons...and the 30-90mm angenienux is the best zoom lens for this such of camera!!
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  7. #7  
    If not monstro, I would go for gemini.

    8k helium is nice for vintage glas that does not cover more. But then also colorfringing is very noticeable on helium. And I never really liked how it clips. Gemini I find to be more monstro like in that regard.
    Björn Benckert
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    VFX / Flame / Motion capture / Monstro
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Tim Daust's Avatar
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    I have both the Helium and Gemini - you really cant go wrong with either. I still love my helium a lot.
    Tim Daust
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  9. #9  
    thanks a lot guys..Monstro is too expensive, and maybe the Gemini is the best compromise, but sometimes could happen to get more details..more resolution..for this reason 8K could be perfect. I'm downloading some sample video files from RED.COM to check how the Helium works at highest ISO, if i can work with Denoise in Davinci
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  10. #10  
    I have helium Brain for sell. 88 hours still under warranty.
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