Thread: New Video: How to get JOKER look

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  1. #1 New Video: How to get JOKER look 
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    https://youtu.be/fFINbdzWQNg
    In this video, I will show you how to recreate a look from the movie JOKER.
    Hit the thumbs up, leave a comment, and share it with your friends. ⁣
    Enjoy!
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    Thanks! Great resolve tutorials.
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  3. #3  
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    Most of the look of the film was done on the set by DP Lawrence Sher, as well as the color-correction by Jill Bogdanowicz at CO3/Santa Monica. What I see in the video doesn't look a thing like what was done on Joker. Jill has talked about her look and the use of a custom 5293 emulation LUT developed by her father, former Kodak color scientist Mitch Bogdanowicz:

    Wild Card: Lawrence Sher on Joker
    http://www.icgmagazine.com/web/wild-card/

    Sher met with Company 3 colorist Jill Bogdanowicz to consult on a show LUT. “Jill’s father, Mitch, had worked in Rochester at Kodak for decades,” Sher reveals, “and he came on to help create a look based on Kodak’s [EXR 200T] 5293. Taking this emulation to the nth degree meant mapping 5293 into the Arri 65 log profile. We used it throughout, putting it into the DI station so dailies just transferred straight across.”

    On Godzilla, Sher had tried to keep the film in a P3 colorspace through most of the pipeline – for Joker, he took it a step further. “The monitors and dailies were all P3,” he says. “There was a Rec.709 version that Editorial could cut to, but everything I saw was P3, which for me was very important because there’s a translation going on when you view in a different colorspace. It’s human nature to get used to how something looks during editing, and then get a shock when you go into final coloring. By having P3 there all along, you can avoid this. I recognize the various issues with this approach, but I feel everybody needs to agree on a single colorspace.”

    Phillips appreciated this, noting; “Larry always works his butt off getting the dailies to look the way we want them. And while Jill at Company 3 is certainly an additive factor in our process, we’re not relighting the look in DI. It’s more about subtlety, in terms of matching highlights and making sure everything integrates.” Bogdanowicz used Blackmagic Design’s DaVinci Resolve to fine-tune the 5293 emulation.

    Sher, who says he’s “immensely happy” with the final grade, notes how the team was able to carry the Kodak 5293 feel straight through, embellished by the addition of 5293 LiveGrain. “Even when doing VFX reviews, I’d think, ‘That looks great without further tweaking,’ since they used that same LUT.” And while he’s yet to tackle the HDR version at press time, Sher feels strongly that the final product should look essentially the same.

    “Whether the movie is viewed in 4K, HDR or low-fi, it should not in one version appear enhanced, but as just another deliverable,” he concludes. “The hardest thing for any filmmaker is probably, after seeing his or her movie in the theater, catching it streaming or on Blu-ray and wondering why it suddenly seems so garish. What happened to the colorspace?” (Note: John Quartel led Company 3’s Color Science department in designing “sister LUT’s” for different versions, including HDR for projection and Rec.709 for home video.)


    Jill is a very experienced and extremely technical colorist who knows this stuff backwards and forwards. Resolve 15.3 was used on this particular project, but she has a unique way of running it that's a bit different than a lot of other people. It's also fair to say that lighting and lenses and the Alexa 65 and exposure and art direction were all a huge, huge part of it.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagg Pette View Post
    Thanks! Great resolve tutorials.
    Thank you.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    Most of the look of the film was done on the set by DP Lawrence Sher, as well as the color-correction by Jill Bogdanowicz at CO3/Santa Monica. What I see in the video doesn't look a thing like what was done on Joker. Jill has talked about her look and the use of a custom 5293 emulation LUT developed by her father, former Kodak color scientist Mitch Bogdanowicz:

    Wild Card: Lawrence Sher on Joker
    http://www.icgmagazine.com/web/wild-card/

    Sher met with Company 3 colorist Jill Bogdanowicz to consult on a show LUT. “Jill’s father, Mitch, had worked in Rochester at Kodak for decades,” Sher reveals, “and he came on to help create a look based on Kodak’s [EXR 200T] 5293. Taking this emulation to the nth degree meant mapping 5293 into the Arri 65 log profile. We used it throughout, putting it into the DI station so dailies just transferred straight across.”

    On Godzilla, Sher had tried to keep the film in a P3 colorspace through most of the pipeline – for Joker, he took it a step further. “The monitors and dailies were all P3,” he says. “There was a Rec.709 version that Editorial could cut to, but everything I saw was P3, which for me was very important because there’s a translation going on when you view in a different colorspace. It’s human nature to get used to how something looks during editing, and then get a shock when you go into final coloring. By having P3 there all along, you can avoid this. I recognize the various issues with this approach, but I feel everybody needs to agree on a single colorspace.”

    Phillips appreciated this, noting; “Larry always works his butt off getting the dailies to look the way we want them. And while Jill at Company 3 is certainly an additive factor in our process, we’re not relighting the look in DI. It’s more about subtlety, in terms of matching highlights and making sure everything integrates.” Bogdanowicz used Blackmagic Design’s DaVinci Resolve to fine-tune the 5293 emulation.

    Sher, who says he’s “immensely happy” with the final grade, notes how the team was able to carry the Kodak 5293 feel straight through, embellished by the addition of 5293 LiveGrain. “Even when doing VFX reviews, I’d think, ‘That looks great without further tweaking,’ since they used that same LUT.” And while he’s yet to tackle the HDR version at press time, Sher feels strongly that the final product should look essentially the same.

    “Whether the movie is viewed in 4K, HDR or low-fi, it should not in one version appear enhanced, but as just another deliverable,” he concludes. “The hardest thing for any filmmaker is probably, after seeing his or her movie in the theater, catching it streaming or on Blu-ray and wondering why it suddenly seems so garish. What happened to the colorspace?” (Note: John Quartel led Company 3’s Color Science department in designing “sister LUT’s” for different versions, including HDR for projection and Rec.709 for home video.)


    Jill is a very experienced and extremely technical colorist who knows this stuff backwards and forwards. Resolve 15.3 was used on this particular project, but she has a unique way of running it that's a bit different than a lot of other people. It's also fair to say that lighting and lenses and the Alexa 65 and exposure and art direction were all a huge, huge part of it.
    I assure you two things, 1. you didn't watch my video or else you'd know that I say everything you just wrote here. Most of the look came from the set. 2. For how far off my shot was that I worked on, I nailed the look of the reference image.

    Also, you get me the dailies and I will nail this look 100% without a doubt.

    Colorists are humans but somehow people such as yourself make them sound like immortal or some alien from another planet.

    I respect Jill and have spoken to her before. She's a super down to earth person and I agree with you that I am sure she's beyond talented that doesn't negate my talent or what I am capable of.

    I am tired of this community how everyone comes out to pull each other's legs and make them feel small. I am not your average youtube enthusiast colorist.

    Shame... ����
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Waqas Qazi View Post
    I assure you two things, 1. you didn't watch my video or else you'd know that I say everything you just wrote here. Most of the look came from the set. 2. For how far off my shot was that I worked on, I nailed the look of the reference image.

    Also, you get me the dailies and I will nail this look 100% without a doubt.

    Colorists are humans but somehow people such as yourself make them sound like immortal or some alien from another planet.

    I respect Jill and have spoken to her before. She's a super down to earth person and I agree with you that I am sure she's beyond talented that doesn't negate my talent or what I am capable of.

    I am tired of this community how everyone comes out to pull each other's legs and make them feel small. I am not your average youtube enthusiast colorist.

    Shame... ����
    Those are pulled quotes from the article, it's not saying that colorists are "immortal" but rather that their approach was very different than what you did. I skimmed your video and you're isolating colors and throwing on power windows, multiple nodes, etc.
    What the article is saying is that they created a blanket 3D LUT for the whole film and the only thing they did in the DI was play around with the levels a bit to make everything balance out or match from shot to shot or whatever similar to what would have happened if it were shot on film instead of digital.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig W. Bickerstaff View Post
    Those are pulled quotes from the article, it's not saying that colorists are "immortal" but rather that their approach was very different than what you did. I skimmed your video and you're isolating colors and throwing on power windows, multiple nodes, etc.
    What the article is saying is that they created a blanket 3D LUT for the whole film and the only thing they did in the DI was play around with the levels a bit to make everything balance out or match from shot to shot or whatever similar to what would have happened if it were shot on film instead of digital.
    I get it. In Hollywood and on high-end tv shows they create a show LUT and in DI they are balancing and making minor adjustments but unfortunately, 99.9% of the world out there doesn't have the luxury that company 3 does so as a colorist, I show people ways they can take advantage of the tools available to the rest of the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waqas Qazi View Post
    I am tired of this community how everyone comes out to pull each other's legs and make them feel small. I am not your average youtube enthusiast colorist.
    I think you trivialize the work that was involved in doing a film at this scale, and you're trying to sell a fantasy to amateurs who don't know any better. They're not going to be able to recreate this look. I think it's very disrespectful to the DP and the colorist to do videos like this, because it misleads the public and perpetuates the myth that this is something people can recreate by following a half-hour YouTube video that's basically trying to sell you stuff.

    I ain't got no shame, because I'm not trying to sell anybody anything. I'm just a colorist with more years of color post experience in Hollywood than you've been alive. But I don't sell smoke to people: I try to actually tell the truth, and if anybody (including clients) asked for a look like this, I'd tell them there's a lot more to it than just twirling knobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waqas Qazi View Post
    I get it. In Hollywood and on high-end tv shows they create a show LUT and in DI they are balancing and making minor adjustments but unfortunately, 99.9% of the world out there doesn't have the luxury that company 3 does so as a colorist, I show people ways they can take advantage of the tools available to the rest of the world.
    I don't think that's unreasonable. I think a lot of what good colorists do is offer filmmakers options, but I also try to explain the realistic limitations of what's possible in post. I often frame comments as, "well, I don't know if we can do that, but let's see how close we can get." And that's not the same thing as, "I can match the look of a $50 million dollar film for your $5000 short." I wouldn't ever say that.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    I think you trivialize the work that was involved in doing a film at this scale, and you're trying to sell a fantasy to amateurs who don't know any better. They're not going to be able to recreate this look. I think it's very disrespectful to the DP and the colorist to do videos like this, because it misleads the public and perpetuates the myth that this is something people can recreate by following a half-hour YouTube video that's basically trying to sell you stuff.

    I ain't got no shame, because I'm not trying to sell anybody anything. I'm just a colorist with more years of color post experience in Hollywood than you've been alive. But I don't sell smoke to people: I try to actually tell the truth, and if anybody (including clients) asked for a look like this, I'd tell them there's a lot more to it than just twirling knobs.


    I don't think that's unreasonable. I think a lot of what good colorists do is offer filmmakers options, but I also try to explain the realistic limitations of what's possible in post. I often frame comments as, "well, I don't know if we can do that, but let's see how close we can get." And that's not the same thing as, "I can match the look of a $50 million dollar film for your $5000 short." I wouldn't ever say that.
    To be fair, I think he says it right up front in the video that he gives client realistic expectations on what can and can't be done based on the footage they have.
    Steve Sherrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherrick View Post
    To be fair, I think he says it right up front in the video that he gives client realistic expectations on what can and can't be done based on the footage they have.
    �� you're fighting a losing battle, my friend. Let Marc tell the whole world how Color Grading is 100% harder than rocket science and no one can ever learn it then the only few that hold the key. Of course, he is one of them because he's been doing this before you or me or even our parents were born. ��

    It's laughable.
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