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  1. #31  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    If Apple move into world of bandwidth limited wireless transmission for AR goggles - does this mean that a future collaboration could see Red helping Apple design some fancy sunglasses? ;-)

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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Litchfield View Post
    Was the lawsuit dropped or did the patent office make a ruling?
    https://www.newsshooter.com/wp-conte...9-01065-DI.pdf
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    Does this mean Red will allow Apple to develop ProRes Raw?
    This is awesome news, well done Red! I'm so happy we'll be able to get internal Prores Raw recording on more cameras in future, that will be fantastic particularly on cameras which also have IBIS and/or phase detect AF :D I've been waiting for this moment for a long time! I often use Red cameras for narrative projects but on certain smaller scale projects it's nice to have the option to use IBIS and dual pixel AF + also have internal compressed raw recording, that combination is my dream come true for run and gun stuff!
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  4. #34  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Badia View Post
    This is awesome news, well done Red! I'm so happy we'll be able to get internal Prores Raw recording on more cameras in future!
    Not sure you understand the meaning of the word "Denying" in the ruling, that states "Denying Institution of Inter Partes Review"
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  5. #35  
    Senior Member Michael Lindsay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    RED integration with Apple’s METAL framework for realtime R3D playback is coming along well and the work that the two teams are doing together is exceeding expectations.
    YES!!!!!!!!! please tell us if this will 'help' decoding on a top of the range mac laptop! ...

    I don't need RT 8k at full debayer on a laptop but if I could get 8k @ 1/4 res and 6k @ 1/2 res without hickup I would be happy and be able to invest in new DIT laptops..

    PS I was gettting so bored looking at PC laptops

    PPS great news on the ruleing!!
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Lindsay View Post
    YES!!!!!!!!! please tell us if this will 'help' decoding on a top of the range mac laptop! ...

    I don't need RT 8k at full debayer on a laptop but if I could get 8k @ 1/4 res and 6k @ 1/2 res without hickup I would be happy and be able to invest in new DIT laptops..

    PS I was gettting so bored looking at PC laptops

    PPS great news on the ruleing!!
    Any news on NLE's supporting this GPU decoding (Windows, MacOS, Linux, BSD, etc..)?
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  #37  
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Badia View Post
    This is awesome news, well done Red! I'm so happy we'll be able to get internal Prores Raw recording on more cameras in future, that will be fantastic particularly on cameras which also have IBIS and/or phase detect AF :D I've been waiting for this moment for a long time! I often use Red cameras for narrative projects but on certain smaller scale projects it's nice to have the option to use IBIS and dual pixel AF + also have internal compressed raw recording, that combination is my dream come true for run and gun stuff!
    yup... but that was true before all of this. We have been licensing our REDCODE ip to other camera manufactures for years... and even in the space you just asked for. People have a really weird take on this, like we trying to prevent everyone. It is actually the opposite.

    There are a lot of people that seem to know all the facts.. based off of bogus youtube videos and make-me-a-lawyer google searches. The actual reality is... well... the reality.
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  8. #38  
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    Any word on the timeframe for METAL playback boost? 2019? Will it also require 4gb vRAM?
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  9. #39  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Just had a quick romp around various internet corners to checkout the expanded discussion surrounding this.

    Here's my take, which has been my take since the beginning of this if you dig up the previous posts. I'll once again put on my rational pants and logical shoes.


    Apple wants to get ProRes RAW into devices and likely license it to camera manufacturers as well. They spent the time, effort, and money to develop that codec.

    Apple moves a lot of product and has a lot of influence on the industry, which has it's pros and cons. For instance, I think the moderate universal acceptance of ProRes deliverables is a rather good thing in particular now that workflows are available on the major operating systems to produce those files. It was real hard not long ago however w/ various hacks and workarounds some of which exist to this day, but things have changed for the better on that front through official licensing channels of ProRes. Also, I don't know if I've been on a set in the last few years where an iPad wasn't present and used in some capacity for reviewing dailies, going over shot related tasks, or whatever. Apple makes useful things and refines them into things you actually want to use, love that.

    Apple wants to expand adoption and the ecosystem of ProRes RAW and likely looked at the cost of doing so for expected units sold and all that, which is why they dropped a dime in the bucket to contest the patent. This patent in particular has withstood previous contests and has yet again.


    So what does that mean?


    It means now Apple knows the path to get ProRes RAW into their devices, which will obviously be a licensing fee/agreement/contract situation. It doesn't take a huge imagination with Pro being tossed around a bunch that this likely effects their iPhone lineup, especially with the 11 being so cool for mobile filmmaking with it's triple camera setup.

    I think what's even more noticeable is now that Apple has banged on the door, it's pretty clear to everybody that the patent sticks and the path to Internal Compressed RAW Recording is indeed through RED and licensing. Some have already gone down the path clearly.


    Some of the expanded discussion online surrounding cabled drive workflows, open sourced but not really developed further RAW codecs, and kinda/sorta RAW codecs is fun. There's places for those workflows. It's not exactly commonplace for streamlined productions however, but certainly relevant as there are absolutely a whole lot of different types of filmmakers out there.


    Long term, I actually think BMD is going to receive the largest pressure surrounding ProRes RAW as the desire to support it in Resolve as well as potentially even in their own cameras will grow rapidly once Apple figures out exactly what they want to do and how they are going to do it. Especially with Adobe Premiere Pro CC and Final Cut Pro supporting the Apple ProRes RAW Workflow. At the moment and rather forward thinking in all of this, ProRes RAW exists in Atomos recorders and apparently licensed properly via that NAB interview this year. Good on them, also smart acquisition of Timecode Systems recently.


    Now that this arm wrestling match is over, it will be interesting to see where ProRes RAW actually manifests in devices that can record images. And personally I'm looking forward to whatever that is.
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  10. #40  
    Member Andreas Gotfredsen's Avatar
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    yeah exactly like I wrote a few post back ..
    Can help and think that this is all based in the fact that Apple want to have ProRes RAW in there next iPhone Pro 12 ....

    After this ruling what will be the next step Jarred ? Will RED License Internal Comrpessed RAW rights to Apple or will we see R3D in future iPhone Pro or will Apple acquire RED and Jarred buys his own island in the caribbean somewhere next to Richard Branson Necker Island
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Just had a quick romp around various internet corners to checkout the expanded discussion surrounding this.

    Here's my take, which has been my take since the beginning of this if you dig up the previous posts. I'll once again put on my rational pants and logical shoes.


    Apple wants to get ProRes RAW into devices and likely license it to camera manufacturers as well. They spent the time, effort, and money to develop that codec.

    Apple moves a lot of product and has a lot of influence on the industry, which has it's pros and cons. For instance, I think the moderate universal acceptance of ProRes deliverables is a rather good thing in particular now that workflows are available on the major operating systems to produce those files. It was real hard not long ago however w/ various hacks and workarounds some of which exist to this day, but things have changed for the better on that front through official licensing channels of ProRes. Also, I don't know if I've been on a set in the last few years where an iPad wasn't present and used in some capacity for reviewing dailies, going over shot related tasks, or whatever. Apple makes useful things and refines them into things you actually want to use, love that.

    Apple wants to expand adoption and the ecosystem of ProRes RAW and likely looked at the cost of doing so for expected units sold and all that, which is why they dropped a dime in the bucket to contest the patent. This patent in particular has withstood previous contests and has yet again.


    So what does that mean?


    It means now Apple knows the path to get ProRes RAW into their devices, which will obviously be a licensing fee/agreement/contract situation. It doesn't take a huge imagination with Pro being tossed around a bunch that this likely effects their iPhone lineup, especially with the 11 being so cool for mobile filmmaking with it's triple camera setup.

    I think what's even more noticeable is now that Apple has banged on the door, it's pretty clear to everybody that the patent sticks and the path to Internal Compressed RAW Recording is indeed through RED and licensing. Some have already gone down the path clearly.


    Some of the expanded discussion online surrounding cabled drive workflows, open sourced but not really developed further RAW codecs, and kinda/sorta RAW codecs is fun. There's places for those workflows. It's not exactly commonplace for streamlined productions however, but certainly relevant as there are absolutely a whole lot of different types of filmmakers out there.


    Long term, I actually think BMD is going to receive the largest pressure surrounding ProRes RAW as the desire to support it in Resolve as well as potentially even in their own cameras will grow rapidly once Apple figures out exactly what they want to do and how they are going to do it. Especially with Adobe Premiere Pro CC and Final Cut Pro supporting the Apple ProRes RAW Workflow. At the moment and rather forward thinking in all of this, ProRes RAW exists in Atomos recorders and apparently licensed properly via that NAB interview this year. Good on them, also smart acquisition of Timecode Systems recently.


    Now that this arm wrestling match is over, it will be interesting to see where ProRes RAW actually manifests in devices that can record images. And personally I'm looking forward to whatever that is.
    Andreas Gotfredsen - Cinematographer - Digital Creative Lead - Sweden
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