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  1. #81  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah Miller View Post
    I guess what I mean to say is do you push the HDR look harder in certain scenes to exaggerate them, kind of like how 3D movies sometimes go in/out from being relatively shallow depth to extremely deep, to exaggerate certain things? The streaming service I was watching the scenes looked like they had serious highlight issues with clamped highlights being reduced to almost a greyish color. I assume it's for the 4K HDR presentation and their player doesn't work correctly online, but maybe I'm wrong on that.
    It's a creative choice, like anything else. There are philosophical differences where some clients want the entire picture to look like it's "HDR" (i.e., much brighter). What Dolby tells you to do when you go through the Dolby Vision certification class is to keep the picture nominally the same but take advantage of not having to clip the highlights, and instead let the highlights go 300% or 400% or 500% higher. So you can use the HDR tools in a subtle way, not hitting the viewer over the head with a sledgehammer.

    I just watched a terrific HDR show on Amazon, the superhero show The Boys color-timed by Siggy Ferstl over at CO3/Santa Monica, and to me a lot of it is actually very subtle and interesting. They do go to exaggerated highlights and super-bright colors and so on every so often, but the majority of the show looked very "normal" for the most part, albeit stylized. You could say that the additional dynamic range does give the picture more depth. I notice they tend to take more changes than I would in Rec709, where I'm constantly concerned about the illumination of the lead actors' faces: in an HDR show like this, they're willing to lead the lead actors fall off into shadow. No doubt, that's the DP and producers' choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Technicolor has offices all over the world, including Shanghai, Bangalore, London and many more. Last time I checked, Technicolor MPC in Shanghai has Baselights.
    Technicolor/Hollywood has installed at least 3 Baselights that I know of, so you can say there's a trend to support different platforms. It's a strain on operations over there, because they have to support at least three different systems (Resolve, Lustre, and Baselight) for different projects. It's not like the old days where if a session was booked and there was a scheduling problem, or if you had some downtime, you could just slip into any other room. Not so simple now.

    It's fair to say some companies are using Baselight as a sales tool, just to differentiate themselves from the "sliced bread" competitors using Resolve. I think that's perfectly valid, but I also think some fairly major filmmakers and producers don't give a crap what color corrector is being used as long as the results are good and the work is done on time and on budget. I've argued with Maxine Gervais (a huge Baselight fan and former trainer) that she could do great work on anything, because the results are because of her skills -- not because of the software.

    BTW, I'm in 100% agreement with you that the color science behind Baselight is beyond compare -- they know the math backwards, forwards, and sideways. There are some little user interface things I find clumsy, but bear in mind I stopped using Baselight around 4.0, and that was also on a Baselight 4. I have no doubt that an 8GPU Baselight X running 5.0 would be stunning. If I had $300K, I'd buy one in a second.
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  2. #82  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    I've argued with Maxine Gervais (a huge Baselight fan and former trainer) that she could do great work on anything, because the results are because of her skills -- not because of the software.
    BTW, I'm in 100% agreement with you that the color science behind Baselight is beyond compare -- they know the math backwards, forwards, and sideways. There are some little user interface things I find clumsy, but bear in mind I stopped using Baselight around 4.0, and that was also on a Baselight 4. I have no doubt that an 8GPU Baselight X running 5.0 would be stunning. If I had $300K, I'd buy one in a second.
    I find it a bit dismissive of you "arguing" with Maxine about the choice of the platform. She used Baselight at Warner Brothers and when she moved to Technicolor, she asked and got Baselight for her (Baselight X) and another one for her assistant. She chooses Baselight because she finds it superior, as she personally told me at FilmLight get-together. I very much doubt, you'd be "arguing" with someone, like Mike Hatzer about his preference for the Lustre or Peter Doyle for choosing the Baselight.
    Again, for the umpteenth time, when you start using Baselight, that is not 20 years old, then we can have a discussion about the quirks of the interface. Baselight interface is infinitely customizable and extremely flexible, unlike Resolve, which seems stuck in 1990s.
    And you don't need to spend $300k on Baselight X to get the job done. Baselight 1 is still a very powerful platform, thanks to it's superior caching, that actually works in the background, unlike Resolve, that must rely on multiple GPUs to do anything, as it's caching is just a mess..
    I just finished a 4k feature on Baselight 1 with just one GPU, no problem whatsoever...
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  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    It's a creative choice, like anything else. There are philosophical differences where some clients want the entire picture to look like it's "HDR" (i.e., much brighter). What Dolby tells you to do when you go through the Dolby Vision certification class is to keep the picture nominally the same but take advantage of not having to clip the highlights, and instead let the highlights go 300% or 400% or 500% higher. So you can use the HDR tools in a subtle way, not hitting the viewer over the head with a sledgehammer.

    I just watched a terrific HDR show on Amazon, the superhero show The Boys color-timed by Siggy Ferstl over at CO3/Santa Monica, and to me a lot of it is actually very subtle and interesting. They do go to exaggerated highlights and super-bright colors and so on every so often, but the majority of the show looked very "normal" for the most part, albeit stylized. You could say that the additional dynamic range does give the picture more depth. I notice they tend to take more changes than I would in Rec709, where I'm constantly concerned about the illumination of the lead actors' faces: in an HDR show like this, they're willing to lead the lead actors fall off into shadow. No doubt, that's the DP and producers' choice.


    Technicolor/Hollywood has installed at least 3 Baselights that I know of, so you can say there's a trend to support different platforms. It's a strain on operations over there, because they have to support at least three different systems (Resolve, Lustre, and Baselight) for different projects. It's not like the old days where if a session was booked and there was a scheduling problem, or if you had some downtime, you could just slip into any other room. Not so simple now.

    It's fair to say some companies are using Baselight as a sales tool, just to differentiate themselves from the "sliced bread" competitors using Resolve. I think that's perfectly valid, but I also think some fairly major filmmakers and producers don't give a crap what color corrector is being used as long as the results are good and the work is done on time and on budget. I've argued with Maxine Gervais (a huge Baselight fan and former trainer) that she could do great work on anything, because the results are because of her skills -- not because of the software.

    BTW, I'm in 100% agreement with you that the color science behind Baselight is beyond compare -- they know the math backwards, forwards, and sideways. There are some little user interface things I find clumsy, but bear in mind I stopped using Baselight around 4.0, and that was also on a Baselight 4. I have no doubt that an 8GPU Baselight X running 5.0 would be stunning. If I had $300K, I'd buy one in a second.
    Also, guys take a look at the technicolor stock curve…

    They lost 90% of their net worth in only the last 3 years. So possibly not the best of role model for success. I think better not try to be Technicolor.

    Its important to understand what they are and where they are coming from. TC is an accent film developing company, and just as Kodak and many others from that era, they are struggling not just a little but a lot to adapt to a new world order where film postproduction have more and more difficulty to hide behind costly tech investments.

    TC quite recently bought the Mill, my guess, a desperate attempt to become a more talent driven company. I don’t have much insight how that has paid off for them but I got plenty of friends that no longer work at the Mill.

    Simply put, talent is a shit hard thing to invest in.

    You buy the Mill and try to adopt it to your needs and then a lot of the good guys just decide to leave… And those that stay see their chance and quickly demand a salary increase etc. Such stuff works way different than it used to when you could tie down your money and staff in having a huge developing process, some costly arri laser recorders and film scanners.

    And Jake, sure I very much know Stockholm/Sweden is not the epicenter for film or TV postproduction, far from it. But lets look at Stockholm as an example for whats going on outside of those high profile cities you mentioned in your post.

    Here in town the big facilities are shutting down. One after the other. The big lab/post facility own by Egmont closed down shop 100 of employes had to go. The oldest Post house quit their operations just before summer. The biggest Stockholm based post house shut down a number of offices around the globe less than a year ago. Meanhile production companies starts to handle a lot of the work the post houses used to do. Lot of the major production companies now choose to do things like editing, grading sound mix and mastering inhouse and most of them do not buy into any high cost fancy applications. They go premiere instead of Avid etc.

    Sure high profile productions are likely to do it else place and differently but the big blockbuster productions are possibly not what to look at to tell the future, thats all I'm saying.
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  4. #84  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Simply put, talent is a shit hard thing to invest in.
    BMD does it with the free Resolve version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Meanhile production companies starts to handle a lot of the work the post houses used to do. Lot of the major production companies now choose to do things like editing, grading sound mix and mastering inhouse and most of them do not buy into any high cost fancy applications. They go premiere instead of Avid etc.

    Sure high profile productions are likely to do it else place and differently but the big blockbuster productions are possibly not what to look at to tell the future, thats all I'm saying.
    We see the same trend in BeNeLux and Germany.
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  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    I just finished a 4k feature on Baselight 1 with just one GPU, no problem whatsoever...
    Just finishing a 4K feature using just one GPU on Resolve. No problems whatsoever.

    In spare time left from media managing, syncing, metadata managing, QCing & multiple delivering from xxxx cards out of xx cameras. On Resolve. Using just one GPU.

    What's your point ?
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  6. #86  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Just finishing a 4K feature using just one GPU on Resolve. No problems whatsoever.

    In spare time left from media managing, syncing, metadata managing, QCing & multiple delivering from xxxx cards out of xx cameras. On Resolve. Using just one GPU.

    What's your point ?
    Read the whole thread, then may be you'll understand.
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  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    BMD does it with the free Resolve version.



    We see the same trend in BeNeLux and Germany.
    Yes they for sure stack up on users. Just as in most industries that has shown to be of great value. Facebook, youtube, Spotify, Netflix etc.

    As long as BM can remain updating resolve in this pace and not charge for it I cant really see how the others will be able to keep up.

    That goes for compositing apps, editing, grading and sound. When you can provide them all in one package and for free and then the level of each part does not need to be top of class the one app and price benefit equals it out.

    If you want to start a vfx facility with 100 artists. Its quite a chunk of of money you need to hatch out each year for updates if you are using nuke for example. The amount of propietary code you can get writen for fusion for that kind of money worth looking into. The benefit to share app with the colorists, edit and sound is also quite a thing.

    So if BM can remain doing what they do they will very much change the industry. And yes I though it would end when capture cards where no longer needed. I thought that would be the end for BM but they survieved. Then I thought they would die when computers got color acurate 12bit HDR screening... We are not there yet but its around the next corner Im sure. But with this 6k camera and BMraw I avtually think they will do better than ever. Every kid and his skateboard friend will get a 6k pocket and a resolve studio dongle. And yes how do you compete with that. :)
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  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Read the whole thread, then may be you'll understand.
    Ok. Let's give it a go:

    "This tool positioned at top market segment, which I AM USING is so much superior than that other one which you can get for peanuts now".


    Close ?
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  9. #89  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Also, guys take a look at the technicolor stock curve…
    They lost 90% of their net worth in only the last 3 years. So possibly not the best of role model for success. I think better not try to be Technicolor.
    And Jake, sure I very much know Stockholm/Sweden is not the epicenter for film or TV postproduction, far from it.
    Sure high profile productions are likely to do it else place and differently but the big blockbuster productions are possibly not what to look at to tell the future, thats all I'm saying.
    Bjorn.
    I hate going on tangents, so I'll try to get this train back on it's tracks.
    The original point was, for biggest box office movies, only the biggest companies can do the job, mainly Technicolor and Delux.
    Just take a look at Technicolor- https://www.technicolor.com/create/p...ost-production
    It's very impressive collection of talent. There talent is provided with the tools they feel most comfortable with, which means, they have everything, price is no object.
    Stockholm, Mexico, Bangalore and many other places don't come to mind, when big tentpole movies need finish. One of the main reasons, why those movies are finished in Hollywood, regardless of where they were shot is the geographical location. Majority of directors, producers, film companies home offices, stars, post talent and biggest post facilities are still in located Hollywood. It's one thing to go on location to shoot a movie, where everyone can do the reviews the next day on their computers and it's a completely different process when it comes to the editing, sound, VFX consolidation and the color. Often color is done at the absolute last minute and for that centralized location is of utmost importance. I know you don't care about talent and you'd like to pay them (and probably do) as little as you can get away with. Luckily, there is still a free market for talent and top talent is still paid quite well. And that talent gets to choose the tools they prefer to use, regardless of price.
    Incidentally, I just checked the top six box office movies so far for 2019, with each earning over $1B and 2 were done by Delux, 3 by Technicolor and Toy Story was done in-house at Pixar...
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  10. #90  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Ok. Let's give it a go:

    "This tool positioned at top market segment, which I AM USING is so much superior than that other one which you can get for free now".


    Close ?

    Not even close. Read the WHOLE post I was answering to and don't try to grab only the parts that may justify your biased narrative.
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