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  1. #51  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Most View Post
    I said absolutely nothing about DaVinci prior to the BM sale. What I said was "prior to BM adding additional modules." Blackmagic released Resolve at the hugely reduced price long before it added things like Fusion and Fairlight. It was that price drop that triggered its market success, not the additional modules that were added later. You went off about DaVinci Systems. I never mentioned that entity because that's not what I was referring to. I was simply pointing out that your depiction of those things as "failed products" was not an accurate characterization. And I stand by that.
    In the phrase you had used "DaVinci never managed to properly transition from hardware based to software based platform. They were late to the market and they were terribly overpriced." I never mentioned other modules. So, I too stand by my original statement you quoted and I also stand by my statement Resolve being a collection of second rate software. So, I guess we should agree to disagree...
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah Miller View Post
    It's quite expensive to train people to use Fusion, when you have a company of hundreds of people, many of which are pulling 6 figure salaries. Building a Fusion pipeline from scratch is also very expensive. When your company has hundreds of employees billing roughly $1500 a day, the cost of a $4500 nuke license per artist and a few NukeX licenses is not much.

    Fusion has a few fundamental image quality issues they need to address with the way some of their nodes work before people start switching. Their corner pinning tools are ridiculously bad and their camera projection is terrible too.
    Hence my original statement of Resolve Studio being a collection of second rate software:)
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  3. #53  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Solina View Post
    Out of topic. Just watched your reel. Great stuff Mr. blackstone. Beautiful image. When will you have a master class for color lol
    Thank you, no plans for master class:)
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  4. #54  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I'm with you there Marc. I moved my old studio to Baselight some years ago after what I can only describe as a painful deep dive into the general color engines when we moved from the home brewed, although very good, cool. I personally at the moment use Resolve, Adobe, and Baselight these days in that order based on each project. If I was the king of Narnia, I would have pushed Adobe to truly build on Speedgrade and the underlaying Lumetri Color Engine, but alas I do not sport a lion's mane. I suspect they will be required to adapt though at this point because Resolve is gaining steam at an unstoppable pace as of now. I do like thus far the Lumetri integration in Premiere Pro, but dammit there's so much they aren't doing or doing right. Though they were gaining steam for a minute. NLE-wise they still hold the market. Color though, well, not really.
    I want them to punch back FYI, this is a boring boxing match. Hell, I want Baselight to enter the big ring more than anything too. They got the goods to slug it out in this arena. But don't know if they are interested in this particular market segment. Every year though, once or twice a year, I try.
    Baselight is not interested in YouTube'r type of users. Their only desire is to serve creative professional types. So, instead of introducing the "Boring detector" they are hard at work on pushing the boundaries of color grading by introducing new concepts never seen before. New texture based tools are just one of the examples. All that is built on the best color foundation in the business...
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  5. #55  
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    Thanks for the input, all.
    I see that a definite preference is emerging for certain individuals that do a certain type of work (I hope that's non-specific enough).

    Workflow is important to me, although I understand that speed and great results come with high fluency in a product.
    I work in Resolve and am getting very accustomed to the all-in-the-box feature set, but I am def. not married to it.
    Also some of the color errors, particularly in the Color Space Transform code, in Resolve is a bit of a bummer. And as my workflow moves progressively closer to "Dolby/HDR10+ Always", the color calculation thing is a bit worrisome. For 709/1886 I am totally cool with Resolve. But there is life after 709/1886.

    When I can find some time, Baselight is the next product to demo/train-on. Anyone want to recommend a different direction?
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  6. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Baselight is not interested in YouTube'r type of users. Their only desire is to serve creative professional types. So, instead of introducing the "Boring detector" they are hard at work on pushing the boundaries of color grading by introducing new concepts never seen before. New texture based tools are just one of the examples. All that is built on the best color foundation in the business...
    Yep, I do truly love what they have done and continue to develop. It's more of the general style of industry and where the products get used.

    I know episodic work now being edited and graded via the NLE even, but the smaller houses within the 3-15 employee realm are very much a thing. With the big boy tools you need to have the income to support the ecosystem, I'm cool with that. On a personal level, it's a tough pill for me to swallow because I wear too many hats and though color is a very often thing for me, higher end 3D and Compositing tools are a real burden because I might only do VFX related things a few times a year and usually when I either want to contribute that way or something needs to get done in a pinch. Occasionally though, if another post house in involved I'll nab a seat and make it happen if the client wants me to do such things.

    On a good day, it's a hierarchy structure and studios should outfit to the tools they want to use and ideally should be looking at those expenses for all of the software as part of the plan. On the weird day, you get weirdos like me who spend a fortune on software because I need the ability to do things when I need to do them. On the bad day, people "find ways" to use whatever. In the midst of all of this there are tools that suite pretty much every market and available at alarmingly reasonable price points that get used on $,$$$ through $$$,$$$,$$$ productions. Now that that is the playing field, I just want everybody to look at that closer.

    There's TV shows being made for $50,000 an episode these days. Not ideal, but that's part of this world now.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  7. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I know episodic work now being edited and graded via the NLE even, but the smaller houses within the 3-15 employee realm are very much a thing. With the big boy tools you need to have the income to support the ecosystem, I'm cool with that
    There are many places now working on on episodic shows, that use Avid for editing as well as color grading utilizing Baselight Editions plugin. A $1K this plugin has most of the tools, that are used in standalone Baselight. And with the ability to embed BLGs into AAF, workflow is even easier, than before.
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  8. #58  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    There are many places now working on on episodic shows, that use Avid for editing as well as color grading utilizing Baselight Editions plugin. A $1K this plugin has most of the tools, that are used in standalone Baselight. And with the ability to embed BLGs into AAF, workflow is even easier, than before.
    Yes, I like the plugin. I'd also love or it to work with other applications. Though for Nuke 'tis wonderful.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  9. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I want them to punch back FYI, this is a boring boxing match. Hell, I want Baselight to enter the big ring more than anything too. They got the goods to slug it out in this arena. But don't know if they are interested in this particular market segment. Every year though, once or twice a year, I try.
    The people and support at Baselight are second to none, and Peter Postma and Sebastian Rasfeld are first-class in their knowledge of color science and the post business. They're also gentlemen and very nice people, which is a huge plus.

    On the other hand: my favorite car (cost no object) is a Tesla, but I drive a Prius. Tesla tastes... Prius budgets. That's kind of the Baselight/Resolve comparison: we want what we want, but we use what we can pay for.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Baselight is not interested in YouTube'r type of users. Their only desire is to serve creative professional types. So, instead of introducing the "Boring detector" they are hard at work on pushing the boundaries of color grading by introducing new concepts never seen before. New texture based tools are just one of the examples. All that is built on the best color foundation in the business...
    I'm in agreement with Jake here: I'm a little dismayed at some of the new features in Resolve designed to appeal to casual users. No question, the color features in Baselight are absolutely dynamite. Once I win De Lotto, I'll set up a facility with a half-dozen Baselight X's and go to town.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  10. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd S View Post
    Workflow is important to me, although I understand that speed and great results come with high fluency in a product. I work in Resolve and am getting very accustomed to the all-in-the-box feature set, but I am def. not married to it.
    Also some of the color errors, particularly in the Color Space Transform code, in Resolve is a bit of a bummer. And as my workflow moves progressively closer to "Dolby/HDR10+ Always", the color calculation thing is a bit worrisome. For 709/1886 I am totally cool with Resolve. But there is life after 709/1886.
    What are you actually trying to deliver for? The biggest problem with an HDR or Dolby Vision workflow is the monitoring. Whether you go Nucoda or Resolve or Baselight, the display is what kills you. There's no reliable way to do it without spending at least $30,000-$40,000.

    For us, we just do the entire project in Rec709, then if the client wants an HDR deliverable, we book time for a trim pass at a Dolby Vision facility and do that there. Even that is not cheap.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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