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  1. #1 Strange-clip-Monstro 
    Senior Member luigivaltulini's Avatar
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    sorry maybe I'm stoning myself ..
    Am I doing anything wrong?
    Lately I've noticed that recording in RAw at a temperature of 3200 degrees and then increasing up to 5600 I'm losing dynamics.
    I can understand if I move 5,000 degrees, but here it happens already after 500 degrees up.
    I noticed this on people's faces, so I took a spot test against the wall.
    It does not seem normal, normally if I change temperature it should not change the dynamic so drastically.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eAn...ew?usp=sharing

    [IMG]red by luigi valtulini, su Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by luigivaltulini; 08-04-2019 at 03:44 PM.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Aaron Lochert's Avatar
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    The behavior of the highlight extension algorithm is a little wonky at different color temperatures..

    We learned this from this thread:
    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...ge-improvement
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Don't use camera metadata color temperature adjustments. Instead, use your primary offsets to reduce exposure and then use color temperature adjustments also using Resolve controls. No clipping...
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Luigi,

    Also, part of your problem is that you are using "Rec709" for Color Space instead of "RWGRGB" and BT1886 for "Gamma Curve" instead of " Log3G10" under the IPP2 " Color Science". You transformed your R3d file in IPP2 into Rec709 and Bt1886 at
    the import of the R3d file into your timeline instead in the last node of your grade. So you are doing about the same thing as trying to push an already Pre-graded ProRes file.

    If you pushed the temp inside IPP2 with the IPP2 Output Transform Lut in the last node of the grade you would get better highlight retention/recovery from the highlight recovery Algorithm.

    Last edited by rand thompson; 08-04-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Aaron Lochert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    Luigi,

    Also, part of your problem is that you are using "Rec709" for Color Space instead of "RWGRGB" and BT1886 for "Gamma Curve" instead of " Log3G10" under the IPP2 " Color Science". You transformed your R3d file in IPP2 into Rec709 and Bt1886 at
    the import of the R3d file into your timeline instead in the last node of your grade. So you are doing about the same thing as trying to push an already Pre-graded ProRes file.

    If you pushed the temp inside IPP2 with the IPP2 Output Transform Lut in the last node of the grade you would get better highlight retention/recovery from the highlight recovery Algorithm.
    That is false.

    The temperature control in the raw tab is still happening prior to the output transform in the raw tab. It will make no difference. In fact, if you do set your raw tab to RWG and Log3g10, you can watch your waveform with NO output transform and still see that you can still truncate the tops of peaks off depending on the color temperature set in the raw tab. It's happening in the SDK's white balancing section, which is why Jake is suggesting to avoid the color temperature slider and instead use Resolve's controls to change color temp.

    RWG/Log3g10:

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  6. #6  
    Senior Member David J. Buchanan's Avatar
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    What the hell kind of weird bug is that? Is this a RED issue or a Resolve issue?
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member David J. Buchanan's Avatar
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    Also, shouldn't this be in the Monstro thread?
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Aaron,



    You Are correct. It makes no difference in Resolve. But a big difference in Redcine-X ,Which is exactly why I only change the color temp in REDcine-X. I setup an IPP2 RWGRGB/LOG3G10 project in resolve to take in those settings from Redcine-X and correct everything else in Resolve. The colors on the chart are fucked but the primary goal of this test was to recover the blown out right side of your face. This was to show how temp and tint in redcine-x makes a difference and not so much in resolve for Raw.














    Last edited by rand thompson; 08-04-2019 at 09:33 PM.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David J. Buchanan View Post
    What the hell kind of weird bug is that? Is this a RED issue or a Resolve issue?
    It is not a Resolve issue, as all color grading software platforms use the same Red SDK. And that is why I just verified, that Baselight also exhibits an exactly the same behavior when using metadata adjustments.
    Personally, I haven't noticed this behavior earlier, as I almost never use metadata adjustments. It is much easier to do all necessary adjustments using software controls, with only possible exception being the exposure.
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Aaron Lochert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David J. Buchanan View Post
    What the hell kind of weird bug is that? Is this a RED issue or a Resolve issue?
    It's a RED phenomenon; Specifically the highlight recovery algorithm. It is more or less effective at various color temperatures. It happens in RCX as well as Resolve. See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    You Are correct. It makes no difference in Resolve. But a big difference in Redcine-X ,Which is exactly why I only change the color temp in REDcine-X. I setup an IPP2 RWGRGB/LOG3G10 project in resolve to take in those settings from Redcine-X and correct everything else in Resolve. The colors on the chart are fucked but the primary goal of this test was to recover the blown out right side of your face. This was to show how temp and tint in redcine-x makes a difference and not so much in resolve for Raw.
    That's not at all what I'm saying.

    What I'm saying is the inconsistent recovery of clipped peaks at various color temperatures issue is a RED SDK phenomenon that happens prior to any output transforms. It happens in RCX as much as it happens in Resolve. Set your IPP2 monitoring in RCX to view straight RWG/Log3g10 and mess with the temperature slider and you'll see peaks come and go as you slide that slider around. Your worklfow of only changing the color temp in RCX isn't gaining you anything over doing it in Resolve -- You're creating unnecessary extra work for yourself.

    Here's Resolve and RCX side by sides at two color temperatures with both RWG/Log3g10 and Rec709/BT1886 (medium contrast/medium roll-off) versions. You can see that they look the same across both software when the settings are the same, output transform or not. Resolve version always on the left of the RCX version:



    So telling Luigi his issue is because of when in the workflow he's applying the output transform is irrelevant to the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    It is not a Resolve issue, as all color grading software platforms use the same Red SDK. And that is why I just verified, that Baselight also exhibits an exactly the same behavior when using metadata adjustments.
    Personally, I haven't noticed this behavior earlier, as I almost never use metadata adjustments. It is much easier to do all necessary adjustments using software controls, with only possible exception being the exposure.
    The interesting thing is that even if you avoid adjusting the metadata, you might not avoid the issue because it's counter-intuitive. The example I've been using of my mug was shot with a 5600K balanced fixture. The metadata color temperature that yields the best highlight recovery in this scenario is somewhere around 3200K. But of course I shot it at 5600K and would of course deliver it to a colorist with that metadata. But a colorist would have better luck actually changing the color temp counter-intuitively to 3200k and then timing that color back to 5600K in their grading software.
    Last edited by Aaron Lochert; 08-04-2019 at 10:27 PM.
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