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  1. #3311  
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    I'm in a similar boat Fahnon - stick with my Weapon Mg and save for future upgrades, or sell it and buy Komodo and accessories. I can't justify owning 2 cameras. For me the global shutter, reduced weight, size, and power consumption is really appealing. But I'll definitely miss having 50p/60p @6K. Another thing to take into account is upgradability - Red has always been generous with their upgrade options, and I'm concerned that if I sell my Mg, DSMC3 will become out of reach for me. It's not an easy decision, and obviously we can only decide once final specs and footage are seen, but I'm currently leaning toward the Komodo.
    Same for me Robert. I'll be definitely missing 6K60p. I would pay more for Komodo if it had 6K60p and 4K75p (FF or with the least crop as possible). Or even a similar price as the DSMC2 if it had thus HFR for that matter. But than, that's not what Komodo was intended for...It's always going to be a compromise for thus who will use it as an A-cam.

    I could easily leave without the expandability and everything else the DSMC2 line offers in favor of Global Shutter and Komodo's portability, low power consumption and workflow (like a MF still camera). Now, if you add HFR let's say 6K60p in FF/ 6K75p in 2.4:1 and 4K96p, although I still prefer GS over HFR, I'ld pay the same price as a DSMC2. But that's a lot of wishful thinking...
     

  2. #3312  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaphaŽl_FR View Post
    I am very intrigued by the sensor that RED announces ... They say it is special ... I wonder if it is not an OPF CMOS sensor (Organic Photosensor Film) with adjustable iso sensitivity (not in gain but in real as in film by prohibiting the saturation of silicon photodiode), ND filters would be of no use ! This is compatible with the global shutter, would also increase the dynamics of several stops and the sensor could accept very inclined rays (less vignetting and no false colors in the corners)

    The Organic Photosensor Film was invented by Fuji and Panasonic had to industrialize it a few years ago but to my knowledge there is no camera using this sensor on the market yet.
    [Emphasis added.].

    @RaphaŽl_FR ~ That's not as far fetched as it might seem.

    Googling about for 50 seconds stumbled across this.

    https://news.panasonic.com/global/pr...n180214-2.html

    ^^^ some of this I've seen kicking about and didn't know how mature it was (yet) ? + quality of actual implementation in a practicable way + production / manufacturing techniques required + materials / long term stability of specific "photo electric" polymeric materials in such a "Matrix" ?

    Some of the things we are having to engineer mechanically have gone from +/- 2.5 micron thru to sub micron 0.00025 mm / in the ten millionths range (of an inch) so almost by necessity having to learn techniques more commonly found in the semi-conductor industry than regular (high tolerance) mechanical engineering, inadvertently I'm learning more about semiconductor manufacturing processes especially the "Machines" that make these things (rather than the chips themselves).

    I've seen adds for test bed small 120 Mega pixels sensors from Canon , but the sensor is really small. So I'm still a believer of larger high quality optics on larger sensors (call me old fashioned).

    The materials science and basic physics / diffraction limits + MTFs still means you have to put a lens to the sensor and I sometimes wonder about a mis-match where you essentially have a lot of what I call "Flabby pixels" , i.e. there is a lot of pixels but not a lot of resolved "data" spatially / diminishing returns.

    IF RED is using something like " OPF CMOS sensor (Organic Photosensor Film) with adjustable iso sensitivity" ; then I am wondering about newer / slightly different lens designs for low distortion wide angle short focal length lenses that are easy to calibrate and don't fall apart at the edges (Kinda Like what you are saying @RaphaŽl_FR about vignetting at the corners + more oblique rays creating more chromatic-ish artifacts and this new technology is more tolerant of more oblique ray angles with fewer artifacts. ).

    Fujifilm have made some super moves with the GFX 50s, GFX 100, and GFX 50 R integrating with more conventional sensors, but killer/ game changing (low) price point ( as compared to team "Phase/ Mamiya/ Leaf/ Schneider Optics and other related "Peeps" ), but still the body design is much more awkward and complicated to work with than a narrow-ish cube camera (at least for what we need).

    Interesting , @RaphaŽl thanks for throwing that up there, will dig about some more these next few days.
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    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  3. #3313  
    No way this sensor will find its way into a camera as small as Komodo. Iím not saying I would be opposed to seeing something this revolutionary in this camera... but in all honesty, I cannot imagine it will make itís commercial debut in anything other than a Panasonic or Fuji body.

    That said, I have high hopes that whatever sensor finds itís way into Komodo, we will not be disappointed. Iím eagerly awaiting the first footage to confirm this.
     

  4. #3314  
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    Panasonic is developing the organic photo sensor. The organic layer sits on top of the normal pixel layer and acts a charge dependent ND filter for an otherwise conventional sensor.

    Komodo is an evolution of Redís existing sensor tech with global shutter features that donít compromise DR and phase detect autofocus built in. Both are pretty significant upgrades to a sensor line that is among the best in existence to start with.
     

  5. #3315  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    Panasonic is developing the organic photo sensor. The organic layer sits on top of the normal pixel layer and acts a charge dependent ND filter for an otherwise conventional sensor.
    I don't think that Panasonic is still working on it, since it sold it sensor division to Nuvoton recently. Hopefully Novuton and/or TowerJazz keep it alive.

    Komodo is an evolution of Red’s existing sensor tech with global shutter features that don’t compromise DR and phase detect autofocus built in. Both are pretty significant upgrades to a sensor line that is among the best in existence to start with.
    Either by itself would be a pretty impressive upgrade, so having both in such a compact body is going to be pretty sweet. By comparison, the lower max frame rates seems like a pretty minor sacrifice.
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  6. #3316  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    I'm in a similar boat Fahnon - stick with my Weapon Mg and save for future upgrades, or sell it and buy Komodo and accessories. I can't justify owning 2 cameras. For me the global shutter, reduced weight, size, and power consumption is really appealing. But I'll definitely miss having 50p/60p @6K. Another thing to take into account is upgradability - Red has always been generous with their upgrade options, and I'm concerned that if I sell my Mg, DSMC3 will become out of reach for me. It's not an easy decision, and obviously we can only decide once final specs and footage are seen, but I'm currently leaning toward the Komodo.
    I hear you, Robert. If I were in your exact boat though, I'd wait until DSMC3 to make a decision. Sure you'll lose some resale value on your current rig, but you'll know what the upgrade situation is for both Komodo and your DSMC2 cam. I'd expect DSMC3 to have many of the advantages of Komodo (like global shutter and lower power draw), so we will probably gain everything but the size/weight advantage on the next round of bigger cameras (I'd also predict the price of DSMC3 will be either much higher or lower in general, but that's for another thread).

    My situation is one where if I don't take the upgrade to the Dragon X it will be gone likely forever, so by March I'll have done one or the other.
     

  7. #3317  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colton John McLaughlin View Post
    Do you need Slo Mo? Do you need modularity? Do you need more robust locking mounts? DSMC2
    Why a locking mount is a luxury commodity for a cinema camera?
    Or Komodo is not a cinema camera?
    Is it a still camera like Canon 1dx III or Fuji X-t4 or Panasonic LUMIX S1H ?
     

  8. #3318  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahnon Bennett View Post
    I hear you, Robert. If I were in your exact boat though, I'd wait until DSMC3 to make a decision. Sure you'll lose some resale value on your current rig, but you'll know what the upgrade situation is for both Komodo and your DSMC2 cam. I'd expect DSMC3 to have many of the advantages of Komodo (like global shutter and lower power draw), so we will probably gain everything but the size/weight advantage on the next round of bigger cameras (I'd also predict the price of DSMC3 will be either much higher or lower in general, but that's for another thread).

    My situation is one where if I don't take the upgrade to the Dragon X it will be gone likely forever, so by March I'll have done one or the other.
    Good point Fahnon. Thanks. Of course the other side of the coin is that I could wait for DSMC3 only to find its out of my budget. I guess I could still buy a Komodo then, but as you say, I would get less for my Weapon and I'd probably lose out on the Hydrogen discount as well.
     

  9. #3319  
    Member Colton John McLaughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Stolpakov View Post
    Why a locking mount is a luxury commodity for a cinema camera?
    Or Komodo is not a cinema camera?
    Is it a still camera like Canon 1dx III or Fuji X-t4 or Panasonic LUMIX S1H ?
    Iím sorry but your question doesnít make sense. Iím not talking about luxury commodity of cameras. Iím not comparing to stills cameras. Iím just stating a fact. The Komodo is RF mount and does not have the ability to swap mounts, you can only add adapters. The DSMC2 lineup has interchangeable lens mounts, and the EF mount has an additional locking ring. These are facts, they donít quantify if a camera is ďcineĒ or ďstillĒ.

    Obviously the Komodo is a CINEMA camera. It just has an RF mount that does not include an additional locking ring. This is just because it doesnít necessarily need one. We saw Jarreds post with that huge anamorphic lens and it seems to do just fine without it.
     

  10. #3320  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Stolpakov View Post
    Why a locking mount is a luxury commodity for a cinema camera?
    Or Komodo is not a cinema camera?
    Is it a still camera like Canon 1dx III or Fuji X-t4 or Panasonic LUMIX S1H ?
    I can answer this question with the rather obvious answer.

    Komodo is a super compact and affordable cinema camera. It's pretty much in the description right there.

    In the case of Komodo, since it's so damn small, many will try to use that to their advantage with native RF glass which isn't very heavy and if you need more robust lens mounts you have options. If you slug a fixed PL mount on there, you we be looking at a longer and heavier camera system. And it would be rad if their were user interchangeable mounts, but again you are getting into a place where the camera gets bigger and more expensive. That's where lens adapters come in. And if there was some sort of radical new design to create a locking RF mount, which might happen one day, it would require a radical new design and likely add a smidge of weight and certainly cost into the equation.

    You will have the option to go from RF to virtually anything. And you will be able to securely mount or PL, EF, R, L, FD, OM, M654, H645, or whatever adapters. Pretty much everything except for Z or E Mount lenses.

    It's very important to be aware that RED is doing everything it can to release a camera at this price point: $,$$$. Not $$,$$$. And also keep the camera the smallest and lightest weight package possible.

    *edit, Colton gets it.
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