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  1. #1221  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordan levy View Post
    it's Damn good, and listen, I made my living from being a focus puller for some of the biggest ASC cinematographers in the business, i was the first one to balk at using autofocus professionally, I even complain about AC's using wireless, still, i cant take over if im doing something artistic, they are like 15ft from me when they used to be next to me. (i yell more) we went through light rangers and cine tape and all sorts of tools in the day to get some almost impossible shots.

    Not until I had just got my A7III for my new scout camera, got rid of the big 5D finally and i was doing some rehearsals for a dance shoot on my scout camera just to find out what camera angles should be as it was to be a one shot video. i would get back the tests and um, it was focusing for me and pretty well. I then dove into youtube tutorials to see what the best settings were and how accurate it was, especially facial tracking, starting doing tests, and it was so dead on i would up talking the band into buying me a ronin S and i shot the video on the A7. since then I've pretty much done every personal "friend" project on the A7 and i have never even thought about focus, it's just there. right before i sold my raven i had to do a video for a friend and i said, what hell, now that i know Davinici so well too, ill shoot this on the raven and see how it compares. it came down to both images been fine, i actually found the sony easier to grade, while the red footage definitely had more latitude, but what really made the difference was no matter how hard i tried to punch in, dial in focus for every shot, have the actors freeze, there was still a small percentage of shots that were slightly out. So, that's when i became and advocate, it's when it's became this good. and i dont use it all the time, depends on the shot obviously, i sometimes use it to set up the scene and sometimes ill use the quick button to disable AF and pull the rest in myself, mainly for racks.

    I would still love to own something with a little better depth in resolution, so hoping for the 10 bit version, but if i was to shoot a doc again, i would be renting the new sony fx9. but i still have hopes for Komodo, i just couldnt deal with the BM pocket, i love my OG pocket and still have it a use it, but the new one has no excuse, its big, its weird, it need tons of things to be rigged off it to make it work, so i sold mine. its too bad because the image was nice and what i love about a personal camera is the ease of use, ease of shooting, ease of post, make it easy.
    Dude...I am with you 100%. If Sony comes out with a 10bit version of their A7 series then it will be very hard for us to keep justifying keeping 3 RED Epic W...
    Again I'm really hoping Komodo will compete with Sony features...but like you I'm doubtful.
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  2. #1222  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    We have the exact assessment. :)

    I'll put it like this...

    If we take Arri's approach to quantifying DR out of a cinema camera, which is more in the context of cinematographic usability, rather than purely mathematical/data centric approach used by others...

    16.

    8
    Mid gray
    8


    Enough.

    8 below is already possible. Noise performance can be better though.
    8 above...let's see who gets there first.
    My bet is Panasonic https://news.panasonic.com/global/pr...n180214-2.html

    8K high-resolution (36M pixels), 60fps framerate, 450k high-saturation electrons
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  3. #1223  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    It gets complicated due to the two different log spaces of Log-C and Log3G10 and considering each manufacturer's standard Rec.709 Ouput, but.....

    If you want 8 Stops above 18% Gray, not counting the gap between the last retained stop and full RGB Clip

    Give ISO 1600 a try on ARRI LF.

    Give ISO 1600 or 3200 on RED Monstro depending on OLPF.

    As for who has Usable 8 Stops below that, well..... I've already shown what that means and it will mostly has the cleanest image at the end of the day.



    Top ISO 1600, ARRI LF. Bottom RED Monstro ISO 3200. Both scaled down to 2K from the full frame here from maximum 4.5K and 8K resolution respectively.

    That's the Xyla, which is the quickest way for me to share this information. I also have non-emissive reflected light patches if needed. At that point I'm charging you though :) But they do match the Xyla either way in measurement.
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  4. #1224  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordan levy View Post
    it's Damn good, and listen, I made my living from being a focus puller for some of the biggest ASC cinematographers in the business, i was the first one to balk at using autofocus professionally, I even complain about AC's using wireless, still, i cant take over if im doing something artistic, they are like 15ft from me when they used to be next to me. (i yell more) we went through light rangers and cine tape and all sorts of tools in the day to get some almost impossible shots.

    Not until I had just got my A7III for my new scout camera, got rid of the big 5D finally and i was doing some rehearsals for a dance shoot on my scout camera just to find out what camera angles should be as it was to be a one shot video. i would get back the tests and um, it was focusing for me and pretty well. I then dove into youtube tutorials to see what the best settings were and how accurate it was, especially facial tracking, starting doing tests, and it was so dead on i would up talking the band into buying me a ronin S and i shot the video on the A7. since then I've pretty much done every personal "friend" project on the A7 and i have never even thought about focus, it's just there. right before i sold my raven i had to do a video for a friend and i said, what hell, now that i know Davinici so well too, ill shoot this on the raven and see how it compares. it came down to both images been fine, i actually found the sony easier to grade, while the red footage definitely had more latitude, but what really made the difference was no matter how hard i tried to punch in, dial in focus for every shot, have the actors freeze, there was still a small percentage of shots that were slightly out. So, that's when i became and advocate, it's when it's became this good. and i dont use it all the time, depends on the shot obviously, i sometimes use it to set up the scene and sometimes ill use the quick button to disable AF and pull the rest in myself, mainly for racks.

    I would still love to own something with a little better depth in resolution, so hoping for the 10 bit version, but if i was to shoot a doc again, i would be renting the new sony fx9. but i still have hopes for Komodo, i just couldnt deal with the BM pocket, i love my OG pocket and still have it a use it, but the new one has no excuse, its big, its weird, it need tons of things to be rigged off it to make it work, so i sold mine. its too bad because the image was nice and what i love about a personal camera is the ease of use, ease of shooting, ease of post, make it easy.
    Imagine this with a focus gearhead for cine-lenses. Imagine if Red bought a Sony license for their auto-focus technology and worked it into cine-lens support for Komodo. We could dream at least.
    "Using any digital cinema camera today is like sending your 35mm rolls to a standard lab. -Using a Red is like owning a dark room."
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  5. #1225  
    Senior Member Bérenger Brillante's Avatar
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    A perfect quality AF, is literally the first feature I spoke about on Jarred's facebook.
    A good autofocus system paired with an Active Track on a Ronin-SC is the key to low to middle budget project with small crews.

    I did my first mirrorless shoot on a Nikon Z6 with a ronin-SC, and it is amazing to be able to do that much with so few.
    Sure it was not perfect, but I was alone to do it.

    Komodo needs to be competitive in AF, an IBIS, in battery life, bootup time, playback/record switch and be compatible with a few DSMC²accessories.
    These are the improvement needed on any Red cameras.

    We already know battery life will be good and cheap. I just hope it has a pogo port on top to put a 4.7", and the weird on/off switch means fast boot up time.



    On the camera side, I'm really hoping it does not have the highest specs of the world but the best image in its class, similair to at least Dragon on a DSMC² (which is still rocking hard)
    Middle specs with new techs, less power consumption, less heat...

    Not necessary cutting edge like DSMC² brains.
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  6. #1226  
    Senior Member Joel Arvidsson's Avatar
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    My first feature wish would be AF, and my second stabilizaiton.

    Also its really time that we could have use of the built in gyro data for stabilization in post. We had gyro since epic mx but nothing happened yet....Some one please?
    Was it the new sony that saves gyro data to meta data?
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  7. #1227  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordan levy View Post
    Not until I had just got my A7III for my new scout camera, got rid of the big 5D finally and i was doing some rehearsals for a dance shoot on my scout camera just to find out what camera angles should be as it was to be a one shot video. i would get back the tests and um, it was focusing for me and pretty well. I then dove into youtube tutorials to see what the best settings were and how accurate it was, especially facial tracking, starting doing tests, and it was so dead on
    This is one of the most interesting comments I've read in a long time. Back in the early '90s, I asked a friend of mine who was in film school, how come AF wasn't used in movie cameras when cheap 35mm compact cameras had it? I forgot his answer, but whatever it was, he was correct. ;-) If the technology was useful, at least some film crews would have used it.

    We've had AF since the 1980s for goodness sakes, and only recently have we been given AF that actually works for motion (and even then, not in every situation). No matter how much you heard about how SLRs and DSLRs could focus really quickly (but not always accurately), that didn't change the fact that AF only worked for photos. Even predictive tracking wasn't good enough to follow someone in motion. Phase detection AF points above a mirror cannot see eyes or faces. When the mirror is up, it's even worse because they can't see anything at all. And when something interrupts their field of view, they don't always know what to do. But with active sensors which allow for image processing, you can have very, very effective subject tracking.

    Almost 40 years after AF hit the mass market are we seeing something good enough for video. We would have never seen this coming from a 1990s perspective, but technology often surprises us - in what it can do, and in what it cannot do.
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  8. #1228  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    Imagine this with a focus gearhead for cine-lenses. Imagine if Red bought a Sony license for their auto-focus technology and worked it into cine-lens support for Komodo. We could dream at least.
    Sony also said they are going to be releasing lenses Q1 2020 built for cinema but with their AF tracking capability, especially made for the fx9, and yes joel, mentioned in the sony announcement was gyro meta data recorded for easier post stabilization, which will soon be available in all editing programs.
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  9. #1229  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bérenger Brillante View Post
    A perfect quality AF, is literally the first feature I spoke about on Jarred's facebook.
    A good autofocus system paired with an Active Track on a Ronin-SC is the key to low to middle budget project with small crews.
    If it's on par with the best autofocus systems on the DSLR market, then yes, if it's slightly working but not good enough it's better to just skip it and focus on getting other stuff better. I've worked with "good" auto-focus and it generally gets 50% of the shots correct and the rest is just unusable. So if it works just some of the time and isn't consistent and reliable I'd skip it as a feature.
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  10. #1230  
    Senior Member Bastien Tribalat's Avatar
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    Since we are on the features we'd want, AF is not my top priority (and if it had AF licensed from another company I would like Canon Dual Pixel AF).
    Mine would be to have the highest pixel count possible in 2x anamorphic so IF the sensor is the same 6K resolution as Dragon 6K, then I'd want it to be 4203x3160 pixels in 2x anamorphic mode.
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