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  1. #3271  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
    None of this has anything to do with the fact that the Komodo camera was in development already.



    Jarred already said that several customers had been asking for cameras with global shutters.
    Well that's encouraging …

    Don't want to get my hopes up too high YKWIM ?

    Good to get it from the horse's mouth.

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    There were tentative explorations for a narrower RED Camera also aimed specifically at the Chinese market at least in form factor , so utilizing the caché of RED name and tech.

    These guys/ RED have a lot ideas and leave no stone unturned.
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    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  2. #3272  
    Member Colton John McLaughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    I really hope so !!! YKWIM ?

    But I never get what I want

    So what works for RED right now and various histories and money(s) spent thereo, what they want to do in the future might not be in-line with what our group / little ship would love to run with and put into other people's hands some very cool capabilities.

    Short of building your own sensors from scratch (which is something I don't want to do) I really hope you are right @Colton John McLaughlin
    i'm hoping some of my predictions come true, i too, dont want to get my hopes too high, but i love dreaming about the possibilities!

    Something thats a real crazy dream of mine would be a Komodo Body, RF mount, 8K monstro sensor, 24fps FF max film rate in 8K, 6K 40fps[windowed], 4k 120fps[windowed].

    The idea behind it however is not directed towards video, but make it a stills camera, with those specs! Medium format form factor 35mp stills camera, with limited 8k video capabilities!
     

  3. #3273  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    Well that's encouraging …

    Don't want to get my hopes up too high YKWIM ?
    Yes... but logically, whey would Red dedicate its sensor design team to a one-off like that? Odds are, every Red camera in the future will have a switchable rolling/global shutter option. Since Jarred said it has no affect on dynamic range, then the worst case is that it's a nice bullet point feature for Red's cameras.
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  4. #3274  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
    Yes... but logically, whey would Red dedicate its sensor design team to a one-off like that? Odds are, every Red camera in the future will have a switchable rolling/global shutter option. Since Jarred said it has no affect on dynamic range, then the worst case is that it's a nice bullet point feature for Red's cameras.
    KOMODO fit the future needs for HYDROGEN extremely well, none of their other cameras they have or had in their line up would fit anywhere nearly as well. Initially it was anticipated that uptake for HYDROGEN and continuation of the project would be much larger scale.

    Coincidence ? Maybe ? Maybe not ? (shrugging shoulders).

    "Logically" - One of the things I love about RED is they don't do anything "Logically" it's with real passion, dynamism and being pretty agile in some cases to meet more immediate needs. So things can change very dramatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
    <snip> Odds are, every Red camera in the future will have a switchable rolling/global shutter option. Since Jarred said it has no affect on dynamic range, then the worst case is that it's a nice bullet point feature for Red's cameras.
    As nice as that would be, I don't see that happening. The Dynamic Range for KOMODO will probably be very decent indeed, but is not the same architecture for sensor and imaging pipeline that's designed for the highest level of image quality deliverable for Digital Cinematics.

    ~ Personally for professional cinematic equipment (of the highest order) I don't reckon that Global Shutter would be offered as it would create mild compromises elsewhere.

    Would be nice if it crept into their future mid tiered offerings.

    I think it's an either / or technical choice for high end work. But certainly globally shutter cameras for VFX and other more digitally oriented applications would be super useful in high end productions as well + form factor ~ Still a question whether RED will seek to take that space or dominate in other areas ?

    I'm sure KOMODO will find it's way into a lot of productions.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  5. #3275  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    KOMODO fit the future needs for HYDROGEN extremely well, none of their other cameras they have or had in their line up would fit anywhere nearly as well. Initially it was anticipated that uptake for HYDROGEN and continuation of the project would be much larger scale.
    Since the Komodo predated the Hydrogen, how is the Hydrogen update relevant?

    "Logically" - One of the things I love about RED is they don't do anything "Logically" it's with real passion, dynamism and being pretty agile in some cases to meet more immediate needs. So things can change very dramatically.
    There is a lot of passion driving Red, but without logic it wouldn't still be here.

    As nice as that would be, I don't see that happening. The Dynamic Range for KOMODO will probably be very decent indeed, but is not the same architecture for sensor and imaging pipeline that's designed for the highest level of image quality deliverable for Digital Cinematics.

    ~ Personally for professional cinematic equipment (of the highest order) I don't reckon that Global Shutter would be offered as it would create mild compromises elsewhere.
    So you're assuming that Red can't make any further improvements on the Komodo sensor in a future version?
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  6. #3276  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colton John McLaughlin View Post
    i'm hoping some of my predictions come true, i too, dont want to get my hopes too high, but i love dreaming about the possibilities!

    Something thats a real crazy dream of mine would be a Komodo Body, RF mount, 8K monstro sensor, 24fps FF max film rate in 8K, 6K 40fps[windowed], 4k 120fps[windowed].

    The idea behind it however is not directed towards video, but make it a stills camera, with those specs! Medium format form factor 35mp stills camera, with limited 8k video capabilities!
    I like this idea too. 8K for stills would be spectacular.
     

  7. #3277  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post

    <snips>

    So you're assuming that Red can't make any further improvements on the Komodo sensor in a future version?
    The key question is whether RED will see a need for a future KOMODO ?

    Only Jarred can answer that and hey may not know himself until he gets an opportunity to test the market or not … Not that market viability has ever stopped them from doing something they really want to do.

    Obviously what I'm saying is there is a basic design compromise or choice that has to be made.

    So if you want globally shuttered camera then perhaps expect slightly diminished color space and DR and possibly slower shutter speeds (in some cases).

    If you want the BEST dynamic range and color space for large area of silicon with high number of photo sites then probably a globally shuttered (electronically) is not gonna be your first choice.

    Simply put:

    ~ Horses for courses

    ~ A camel is a horse designed by committee . (There's only so many do-all features that you can smash together .).

    It may be that Jarred two years from now sees no need for anymore globally shuttered sensors ? <----- That is a possibility , He's the Boss and decides (in large measure) what RED should produce, the profit margin may not be that favorable versus support and applications... IF KOMODO really goes gang busters that's why I wonder if a separate division might be set up or even be bought by someone else ? [Highly speculative of course.].

    RED does a lot of really cool sh*t but the bottom line is not always the motivator.

    Maybe over a ten years period they / RED may choose to close the gap on hybrid Global shutter / rolling shutter cameras or choose to do something completely different.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  8. #3278  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    The HYDROGEN project encompassed other cameras as well, not just cell phones and H4V formats + LEIA RED displays.

    If you go through the patent literature there were some really interesting different camera designs and really interesting alternate interconnecting lens mounts etc. And several different imager ideas / cameras floated out there for larger future HYDROGEN ecosystem.

    Also around the time there were initial exploratory discussions with Terry Gou and FOXCONN as well as other needs and some other really BIG moving parts (as big as it gets).

    These are shifting sands on Global scale. Even the Foxconn plant in Wisconsin has been repurpose somewhat since then.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________

    I think it would be super awesome IF RED continued to develop other globally sensored cameras [As that would be super helpful to our aims.] but as the RED Motto and Maxim states "Everything can and will change.". ].

    Personally I don't see why RED would develop a globally shuttered camera ? (in the first place ? / per say ? ) Given various applications spaces and tradeoffs and needs for commercial broadcast and Film industry ?

    After shooting global shutter cameras for the last 15 years, I fully understand why it is desirable, especially for fast movement and action cameras. 3-chip CCD video cameras were global shutter until the move to HD and larger single sensor formats. Digital still cameras with mechanical shutters too. Anyone who has suffered flash banding filming live events is going to be a big fan. Video camera rolling scan is nothing like a film camera's rolling shutter.

    Sensor size and increasing resolution made global shutter video difficult and impractical from an engineering standpoint for a long time, thankfully that period is coming to an end.
     

  9. #3279  
    Senior Member andrewhake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    Maybe a rig that enables you to use canon batteries while having a V-lock in place to create a hot-swap using the canon batteries as a source when changing V-Locks.
    Or you could just hot swap the normal dual battery setup and literally record forever? Something like that would literally double the size of the camera.

    I am sorry but 99% of the ideas suggested on this thread are completely ridiculous.
     

  10. #3280  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    Obviously what I'm saying is there is a basic design compromise or choice that has to be made.
    So if you want globally shuttered camera then perhaps expect slightly diminished color space and DR and possibly slower shutter speeds (in some cases).
    Jarred's already stated that there's no penalty for the global shutter mode on the Komodo.

    RED does a lot of really cool sh*t but the bottom line is not always the motivator.
    Quite true. I have a much higher end Red camera than I need because of that.

    Still, a lot of what Red develops is determined by feedback from Red's customers...
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