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  1. #1301  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendes Nabil View Post
    Some of us here have unrealistic expectations, Full frame (24x36) is a very high-end feature in the Red line up, Komodo will certainly be around S35 if not smaller (remember the Raven)..
    As for the frame rate, let's not forget the fact that we are discussing a 6k$ camera, it just can NOT be a 6k/120fps Vista Vision beast, not at that price.
    6k/30fps and maybe 4k/60fps in cropped mode is what we'll gonna get, i hope, because high specs at a low price means low sensor quality, which leads to my second point, probably the most important and disregarded element..
    "The nature of the sensor".
    It's a Red sensor, it's already stated, but expectations are also not unrealistic if you look at the competition this camera is under.

    6K 50fps is what the Pocket 6K can do for half the price. If Komodo only does 6K at 30fps, it sure needs the same good DR as the other Red's while having a larger sensor than the Pocket. Frame rates matter, sensor sizes matter, noise handling matters and many competitors are catching up at lower price-points.
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  2. #1302  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    It's a Red sensor, it's already stated, but expectations are also not unrealistic if you look at the competition this camera is under.

    6K 50fps is what the Pocket 6K can do for half the price. If Komodo only does 6K at 30fps, it sure needs the same good DR as the other Red's while having a larger sensor than the Pocket. Frame rates matter, sensor sizes matter, noise handling matters and many competitors are catching up at lower price-points.
    I do have to agree. Times have changed with much fiercer competition and much more options now. I think expectations are high for a reason....
     

  3. #1303  
    Senior Member Mendes Nabil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    It's a Red sensor, it's already stated, but expectations are also not unrealistic if you look at the competition this camera is under.

    6K 50fps is what the Pocket 6K can do for half the price. If Komodo only does 6K at 30fps, it sure needs the same good DR as the other Red's while having a larger sensor than the Pocket. Frame rates matter, sensor sizes matter, noise handling matters and many competitors are catching up at lower price-points.
    You are missing a point my friend, Komodo ins not under, its specs are.
    Basically, we have "High specs/Low image quality VS Low specs/High image quality", if you need high specs at a cheap price, you'll not find it here, but if you are looking for high image quality, you're on the right boat.

    Still i totally understand your point as the "High image quality / Low image quality" frontier is getting dangerously blurred by the fierce and agressive competition.

    Time will tell i guess,
     

  4. #1304  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendes Nabil View Post
    You are missing a point my friend, Komodo ins not under, its specs are.
    Basically, we have "High specs/Low image quality VS Low specs/High image quality", if you need high specs at a cheap price, you'll not find it here, but if you are looking for high image quality, you're on the right boat.

    Still i totally understand your point as the "High image quality / Low image quality" frontier is getting dangerously blurred by the fierce and agressive competition.

    Time will tell i guess,
    A camera is more than its sensor. While image quality is usually better with Red, a few of the cameras competing in this price range does not have bad images at all. The biggest difference is that there are far more bad cinematographers and vloggers with terrible LUT's out there making these cheaper cameras look like shit, but the basic images you get from them handle well when you know what you're doing.

    I've said this before, Komodo is a cheap Red, but an expensive mid-tier option of cameras. And if it doesn't meet expectations of what others bring to the table, then a decent image quality won't be enough. For example, if you can't get good result out of a Pocket 6K, then you aren't really a good photographer/cinematographer.

    These are new times in the camera market and there are basic features expected on the market. The images from Komodo needs to be miles ahead in quality if they're the only weapon against the competition, but that would mean being on par or better than the current lineup of Red cameras, which might be a problem for Red. So, if Red's gonna "win" this mid-tier race, Komodo need to have good image quality AND compete in features others have.

    If I would choose reasonable specs, I'd either have a full-frame 6K Komodo at a compression rate of 6:1 minimum at 30 fps FF or a s35mm+ (like Gemini and Dragon) at 50-60 fps FF 6K. Going under that would be hard to justify for its price-point when we look at what the others bring to the table. If we look at the Pocket 6K, it's lacking in stops compared to most Red cameras, it's lacking in practicality and compatibility in post, but it has 50 fps 6K, decent RAW handling and good enough image quality for professional delivery. If adding double its price to reach the presumed price-point of Komodo, then I would say increasing stops, better compatibility in post through R3D workflows and Red's image quality standards would be what justifies the increased price. We have a good baseline for what cameras under a certain price can do today, so that is a good guide towards what is reasonable for the market, if under-delivering on that, it will end up like the Hydrogen I'm afraid.
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  5. #1305  
    Senior Member Bérenger Brillante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    Can't we assume that the 4K SDI output is scaled from the full sensor? And possibly/probably scaled 4K ProRes to the Cfast cards?

    Can't work my way through the gajillion words in this thread - do we know the actual sensor size? Do we know if the mount is removable and older RED PL mounts will work?
    Jarred said back then that DSMC² bodies had the choice of Prores or 4k output, and that at the time, 4k output wasn't relevant as there were no 4k displays available, so they went Prores.
    For that reason, I don't think there will be Prores in camera as there is a 4k output this time.

    But then, there is no HDMI output either. If there is no proprietary output on the brain, it probably means there is just enough horsepower left for internal Prores.
    But then also, considering the size of the brain.... not sure.

    But I'd rather take one pogo output on top to be honest.

    ...
    ...

    Just release the specs boys !
     

  6. #1306  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bérenger Brillante View Post
    Jarred said back then that DSMC² bodies had the choice of Prores or 4k output, and that at the time, 4k output wasn't relevant as there were no 4k displays available, so they went Prores.
    For that reason, I don't think there will be Prores in camera as there is a 4k output this time.

    But then, there is no HDMI output either. If there is no proprietary output on the brain, it probably means there is just enough horsepower left for internal Prores.
    But then also, considering the size of the brain.... not sure.

    But I'd rather take one pogo output on top to be honest.

    ...
    ...

    Just release the specs boys !
    This is an interesting question ... How much of the "brain" is the brain, and how much will it depend on your Hydrogen 1 (or 2)? How much work will the cell phone (I mean err ... Media Machine ... ) be doing, taking the load off the camera's processessor?
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  7. #1307  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Jadot View Post
    This is an interesting question ... How much of the "brain" is the brain, and how much will it depend on your Hydrogen 1 (or 2)? How much work will the cell phone (I mean err ... Media Machine ... ) be doing, taking the load off the camera's processessor?
    Based on the specs of the Hydrogen, I don't think it's going to be taking any sort of computational load off of the "brain".
     

  8. #1308  
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    It seemed like Komodo and Hydrogen camera module were totally separate things and that the marketing team had to "connect" them after the hydrogen bombed and the hydrogen was moved under the red camera divisions control.

    I think the only hydrogen integration is going to be a discount and an app that any phone can use. So basically just a discount acting as a token of gratitude for those who took the gamble on the phone.

    We shall see, but i just don't think there is going to be any deep integration here.
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  9. #1309  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Very much the same moves here. I haven't purchased power or memory yet, that's the easy stuff. But I grabbed various lens adapters for RF Mount in anticipation. This is actually a double dip for me as this is preparing for Komodo, but also an upcoming Canon Mirrorless camera.
    Which Canon mirrorless, out of curiosity?

    I'm suddenly on the market for a mirrorless camera again, because my Sony A7r shutter crapped out on me during a shoot over the weekend... since I got it not long after its launch and have been using it all over the place, I'm not all that annoyed that it finally gave up the goose in general, but mostly about the timing... I'd planned on getting a Komodo first and holding on to my a7r while I decided which mirrorless to finally go with; now I might be forced to choose sooner than I'd planned :-/

    I don't have much of an investment in Sony lenses, since I've been using manual focus lenses adapted from other mounts, mainly Alpha and Nikon.
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  10. #1310  
    Member Cole Sprague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Jadot View Post
    This is an interesting question ... How much of the "brain" is the brain, and how much will it depend on your Hydrogen 1 (or 2)? How much work will the cell phone (I mean err ... Media Machine ... ) be doing, taking the load off the camera's processessor?
    I hope none, there’s not even enough processing power to load different screen switching animations when swiping between pages. Only the default one works without hanging.
     

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