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  1. #221  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Šabović Adis View Post

    It sure works with 100 ASA film, no one ever said it wouldn't, but
    what if you use film you don't know the ASA of? How do you determine if it's a 50, 100, 250, 500 ASA or in between, whatever? What do you do?

    Phil, feel free to chime in!
    Simple. Light an 18% gray card or grayscale chart to a meter referenced ISO rating. Bracket chart exposures around that rating and measure the negative or resulting print with a densitometer. I used to do this with each fresh batch of film when shooting works of art for a museum for publications. Different film batches might vary as much as 1/3rd stop either way from the nominal rating on the box.
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  2. #222  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    Simple. Light an 18% gray card or grayscale chart to a meter referenced ISO rating. Bracket chart exposures around that rating and measure the negative or resulting print with a densitometer. I used to do this with each fresh batch of film when shooting works of art for a museum for publications. Different film batches might vary as much as 1/3rd stop either way from the nominal rating on the box.
    See, Brian, to David you listen!

    Thanks, David!
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  3. #223  
    Senior Member Brian Boyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Šabović Adis View Post
    See, Brian, to David you listen!

    Thanks, David!
    Congratulations. You got an answer to a question you asked which had nothing to do with what I was talking about. We weren't talking about the same thing...at all.

    You think because I used the word "determine" instead of "derive," like you did, that it means something different in the context of the discussion. It doesn't. Perhaps it's a language thing.

    I only brought up the formula to help you realize the method you stated for coming up with middle gray is faulty. The way you do it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    Simple. Light an 18% gray card or grayscale chart to a meter referenced ISO rating.
    ...or get an incident reading from your meter...or use the formula I gave you.

    Take your own advice and listen to David.
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  4. #224  
    Senior Member Brian Boyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielB View Post
    Although the subject currently discussed always makes for an interesting read there's a part of me that would like to see part of the discussion circle back to Komodo.

    Here are some thoughts. Komodo is a new camera design in a body significantly smaller than what RED has ever done before. People expect S35 or even hope for FF which as we know with current high quality sensor tech requires a lot of power and generates a lot of heat and needs beefy cooling.

    This new camera design being smaller means smaller heatsink which has to mean less heat generated which then also means lower power draw (also nobody expects having to hook up V mounts for adequate run time on a camera of this size)

    If RED can keep this sensor specs in line with the DSMC2s in terms of color science and DR, and be in line with expected resolution and frame rates compared to cameras such as the Zcam, it would then mean RED has developed new sensor tech and electronics design that can capture high quality cinema imageries in a package that draws less juice generates less heat and requires less cooling.

    This to me is quite significant and pretty exciting. And it also makes me wonder about the future and how these new thermal & power improvements may be implemented in larger upcoming DSMC3 cameras/sensors that could draw less power run cooler and be quieter !!
    Although the discussion did get a little off track, for my part at least, it started out and still is more about the sensor than anything else.

    If RED delivers a sensor that does what I've been droning on about over the last 10 pages (and few years), I wouldn't care what lens mount Komodo has. If it didn't fit my EF lenses, I'd get an adapter. If no adapter were available, I'd sell the EF lenses and buy whatever lenses fit the mount.

    I wouldn't care what kind of battery it takes, how much power draw it had or how it was cooled. We know it will use CFast cards but I wouldn't care if it still used REDmags. I wouldn't care if I could only use a Hydrogen as a viewfinder.

    Now, like I said before, I think it a reasonable assumption that whatever the sensor is, it would also be available for the unified body becasue of the swapping program. But, if I could only get it in the Komodo body, I wouldn't care about that, either.

    I know the things I don't care all that much about are legitimate concerns for a great many people and they're right to want to know what this camera is and isn't and how it will fit with how they work, or would like to.

    My thing is I'd figure the rest of that stuff out and make do where I had to in order to get that functionality in a sensor.

    I decided a while back that, until someone develops a sensor that captures significantly higher light intensity, I come into a shitload of money and can buy cameras on a whim, or RED lets me do an even swap with a Gemini for my camera, I'm sticking with my Scarlet Dragon.
    Last edited by Brian Boyer; 08-03-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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  5. #225  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Boyer View Post
    Congratulations. You got an answer to a question you asked which had nothing to do with what I was talking about. We weren't talking about the same thing...at all.
    I know.

    Unfortunate that it took an David to get an answer - from you.

    (David, please don't get mad at me for using your name like this, it's all educational purposes )

    You think because I used the word "determine" instead of "derive," like you did, that it means something different in the context of the discussion. It doesn't. Perhaps it's a language thing.

    I only brought up the formula to help you realize the method you stated for coming up with middle gray is faulty. The way you do it is:



    ...or get an incident reading from your meter...or use the formula I gave you.

    Take your own advice and listen to David.
    Brian, the formula you provided (which I didn't ask for!) is only useful when there's only one unknown. I'm talking two unknowns here.

    How do you determine the optimal exposure (gray card here!) for a given film or sensor, not knowing it's ASA/ISO rating beforehand, if not by Phil way of empirically determining things, aka find out it's MINs and MAXs by testing?
    Answer: you don't.
    P.S.
    To you too I apologize, Phil, for dragging you into this.
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  6. #226  
    Senior Member Samir Patel's Avatar
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    Loved when reduser stayed on topic...
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  7. #227  
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    Adopt a similar design that already works and make it a lot better. Cant wait for RED’s “Z Cam” sized cinema camera. Been waiting for a pocket RED since the release of the original Red One M.

    Blackmagic was on the right track, but they seem to have lost their steam and innovative direction. The new Z Cam and Sigma cameras look really interesting, and the next wave should be even better. Blackmagic RAW is awesome, but I’m not a big fan of the sensor technology they settle on, much like the rest of the industry. Everyone using the same damn sensor in a different box... small tweaks using their own compression formula. Not really interested in that design concept per se. We see a lot of “cinema cameras” which is awesome but they lack sensor innovation.

    RED relies heavily on the innovative R&D sensor development team. Hand picking the right sensor designs, tweaking them, and utilizing every ounce of sensor magic possible. That’s why the industry was pushed forward. I expect them to continue that trend.

    This little RED is going to be a powerful workhorse.
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  8. #228  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Johnson View Post
    Everyone using the same damn sensor in a different box... small tweaks using their own compression formula. Not really interested in that design concept per se.
    I object to the use of mediocre sensors in the Hydrogen, too. But as for Blackmagic, well, they offer value, not cutting edge innovation. That's why their products are affordable. The Pocket 4K is a great product but then again, it doesn't do it for me. If the body shape had been different, it could have been the DSMC I have been waiting for at a reasonable price. Not quite. Komodo won't be that either, I don't think.
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  9. #229  
    Senior Member Brian Boyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Šabović Adis View Post
    I know.
    You clearly don’t. Get ye behind me, Satan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samir Patel View Post
    Loved when reduser stayed on topic...
    Hmm...that must be a time before 2009, when I first started reading regularly. Jim used to shut down threads that went off the rails quite often.

    At any rate, everyone rejoice. I’ve said my piece on the subject and will wait to find out more info as it becomes available.
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  10. #230  
    Senior Member Samir Patel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Boyer View Post
    Hmm...that must be a time before 2009, when I first started reading regularly. Jim used to shut down threads that went off the rails quite often.
    Not calling anyone out specifically of course. Just... nowadays... check in on occasion and find myself nauseated where discussions go off topic far too often. Just a different terrain I guess.
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