Thread: Did RED really lie about their Mini-mags?

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  1. #1 Did RED really lie about their Mini-mags? 
    Senior Member Brent G Miller Jr's Avatar
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    As with so many others, I just came across a video proving that RED mini-mags are nothing more than cheap off the shelf mSATA cards. What’s everyone’s take on this? We’ve had / have multiple RED cameras but if RED is lying about something as simple as memory cards - making huge claims that they are far better than they are - that brings up serious concern about ALL of their hardware. To be clear, I’m not concerned about the MSRP of the cards (RED is very affordable overall), but rather the honesty and quality of products they’re really pushing out. Are their sensors really better than anyone else’s? Have all of the TV and film producers (myself included) who have used RED on high budget sets just fallen for the cool-aid?

    I’m hoping that the RED camera sensors and guts are truly high quality and proprietary designs rather than rebranded off the shelf parts at triple the price. We have already allocated $100K for 2 DSMC3 brains when they release as we’re still shooting on our current Dragon sensors and won’t be upgrading again this generation... but if RED announces a new camera and claims it’s the bee’s knees, are we now to question it?

    My latest film (www.BeforeTheWrath.com) releasing worldwide on October 22, 2019 was entirely shot on set with 3 DSMC2 Dragons and I love the footage but can’t help but pause and wonder what’s really inside that little black box now...

    What do you all think?
    Last edited by Brent G Miller Jr; 07-24-2019 at 05:20 AM.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Andy White's Avatar
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    I really doubt there's an issue on hardware at all.

    Essentially, I can't see the Panavsion DXL existing (ie a very reputable and long standing industry giant) getting involved in their own RED camera variant, if there was any hardware issues (or RED had cheaped out etc).

    We still have a Dragon (with 1.8 media, no less!) and skipped DSMC2 (as we focused on building more CGI/Mocap infrastructure in our studio), but we'll jump onto DSMC3 (hopefully!).

    The Mag thing isn't great PR, that's for sure, but I wouldn't let it erode your confidence in the camera system itslelf... it's all about the end results :)
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Brian F Kobylarz's Avatar
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    My gut says you already know the answer.
    It is in the results of the images you capture.

    As far as trusting the specs of the sensor? There are independent organizations that have tested and rated the product.
    This information is public and easy enough to review.

    Promotion and marketing is full of smoke and mirrors. How you present and how it is interpreted.

    RED has been impacting our industry for just over ten years now.
    Compared with others, that is not very long. I can accept that they will (and did) make mistakes along the way.
    Wasn't the first time and it won't be the last. It could be growing pains or it could be symptomatic of a deeper problem. Time will tell.
    My question is how much they learned in the process to right the ship, restore trust and continue the revolution.

    In the meantime, my position / advice is to concentrate on selecting the tools that deliver the best results.
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    If you have been happy with the cameras so far and they have delivered images that meet your expectations, I don't see any reason that won't be the case in the future. However, like any new release getting in on first batch brings along a bit of risk as there may be things to sort out or it's possible you just don't like the direction the new tech has gone.

    As much as this story with the Redmags has brought some negative PR RED's way, I still feel that the media has been very reliable overall. Could it have been better, higher performing? Maybe, but considering that the track record has been rather solid, it's not like they put junk in the Redmags and ruined people's shoots. So, there's some room to see both sides of this controversy.
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  5. #5  
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    This thread and the two others before it are dumping grounds for lay persons to air their naivete.
    These threads in no way help the industry perception of the Red product which MANY of us who own and shoot Red know are solid As F$$k.
    Stay in your lane please.
    Last edited by Todd S; 07-24-2019 at 07:03 AM. Reason: spelling
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  6. #6  
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    Everyone can post opinion and questions here brother, not just the red fans
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Scot Yount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherrick View Post
    If you have been happy with the cameras so far and they have delivered images that meet your expectations, I don't see any reason that won't be the case in the future. However, like any new release getting in on first batch brings along a bit of risk as there may be things to sort out or it's possible you just don't like the direction the new tech has gone.

    As much as this story with the Redmags has brought some negative PR RED's way, I still feel that the media has been very reliable overall. Could it have been better, higher performing? Maybe, but considering that the track record has been rather solid, it's not like they put junk in the Redmags and ruined people's shoots. So, there's some room to see both sides of this controversy.
    This pretty much. For me, the cost of REDMAGs always seemed too high. That said, I own 7 of them...(all of which I GOT USED...) and I have had zero failures under lots of hard use. Solid stuff. YMMV.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Wilganowski View Post
    Everyone can post opinion and questions here brother, not just the red fans
    Clearly.
    And in my opinion this Flamey thread was started so the OP could promote his new project right on top.
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Yount View Post
    This pretty much. For me, the cost of REDMAGs always seemed too high. That said, I own 7 of them...(all of which I GOT USED...) and I have had zero failures under lots of hard use. Solid stuff. YMMV.
    And now you know how to upgrade them for cheap.
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member Brent G Miller Jr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd S View Post
    Clearly.
    And in my opinion this Flamey thread was started so the OP could promote his new project right on top.
    Ha, that’s a new one. I actually just flew back into the mainland and JUST found out about this whole memory card debacle last night and jumped on the forums for some clarity. And “promote” by the way is truly humerus and somewhat offensive. I was pointing out that our concern is valid because we are genuine RED fans and shooters (as clearly seen in the latest trailer I linked you to). We own and use the gear on set.

    Humbly and genuinely speaking, “promotion” was the farthest thing from my mind. It feels awkward to say this, but to make the point, we are blessed to already have great distribution partners and work with theaters and major retailers such as Walmart, BestBuy, Target, Mardel, Vudu, PlayStation etc etc etc. My last film (#1 Amazon Bestseller with over 25 awards and nominations) is also at all of those retailers and many more worldwide. I would not think a link on a small niche forums (which I have been an active member of for years) would have any impact on our ROI in the even the smallish way.

    No, I genuinely posted this as a real concern that warranted a real response. I would find it difficult to believe that I’m the only one with this concern? After all, I too own multiple mini mags (obviously) and am aware that RED said it was cutting edge proprietary technology and so on... it was all a lie. Is it not natural to ask what else is untrue? I’m perplexed why my logical approach to this is sparking some defensive responses. I think the questions are fair.

    We also believe that RED is quite affordable and have never had any problems with their price tags. My concern never the cost, it was their claims.

    That being said, Andy White makes a very valid point and thank him for that. I hope the cameras really are sound, and it was ONLY the memory cards that they grossly lied about. I always assumed that accessories such as monitors were price gouging due to the brand - 7” monitors for $3K is fine, I just assumed they’re generating healthy profits. So what... but to say a product is something that it’s not is different.
    Last edited by Brent G Miller Jr; 07-24-2019 at 10:40 AM.
    Brent Miller Jr.
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