Thread: Media Storage-Lacie12Big versus Areca 12 bay? And Raid 5/6 versus Raid10?

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  1. #1 Media Storage-Lacie12Big versus Areca 12 bay? And Raid 5/6 versus Raid10? 
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    I'm looking to upgrade my storage solution to a fast-enough, big-enough, but very stable high-capacity external thunderbolt 3 drive.

    Workflow strategy is to ingest to the large (100TB+) raid, organized by year/month, and backup to cheaper/smaller drives periodically as footage is added.

    I'd like the drive to be fast enough for viewing 4/5/8K at 1/2 generally, but for the NLE works-in-progress I already have separate high-capacity SSD raids to work off of.

    I'm not technically ready for a server or SAN solution, so the DAS options I'm looking at are:

    Lacie 12Big 120/168TB https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...derbolt_3.html


    and the Areca 12-Bay https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...kaAlqYEALw_wcB

    There was an article in 2018 that seemed to indicate that the Areca hardware was a superior option.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2.htmlI'd like to get the 12 bay for $2,200 and 14TB or 16TB Ironwolf drives (if supported) will round out ~5-6K versus $10K for the fully loaded 168TB Lacie 12Big option.

    Does anyone have experience with Lacie and Areca? Is the fuss of loading the Areca with separate drives and maintaining the raid worth the cost and putative performance benefits?

    I'm thinking Raid 10 for this solution for speed/redundancy since I have lots of bays and TBs, and was wondering if that is another strike against the 12Big because the article seems to indicate that when you deviate from its Raid-5 pre-format, performance suffers.

    Thanks for the feedback.
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  2. #2  
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    How about a thunderbolt NAS, Thunderbolt and Ethernet in one package https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/?conditions=2-8
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  3. #3  
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    "And if you are unfamiliar with setting up a NAS - as I have said many times before - this is nothing like plugging in a G-Tech Studio XL or Promise Pegasus thunderbolt RAID. IT requires a setup, and unless you are willing to
    sit there and suffer thru the setup, you will need to pay someone to help you do the setup. This is not plug and play - not the QNAP, not the Synology. Some people find it easy - many do not. "

    Bob Zelin"

    My level of skill with storage systems is about a 5 out of 10.

    0 is "Why is this USB HDD so slow for editing 8k??"

    5 is internal/external raid competency. 6-7 is NAS/SAS;

    10 is Bob Zelin/Phil Holland love child.

    The 12-bay QNAP looks neat and checks alot of boxes...but I already have a 30TB NAS for photo/project archival. I'd want something more robust for editing and in Raid 10 I think I can get higher performance from an external RAID10 exFat formatted. Also it seems that the QNAP needs SSDs (x4) and M2s (x2) for some level of cache and I'd rather take those bays for hard storage and to simplify cache/volume decisions while getting xx00MB/S read and write...even though it's a DAS wouldn't the data rates be better for transferring, transcoding, and editing than the equivalent volume on NAS?

    Simply put I don't think the thunderbolt 3 QNAP NAS setup is equivalent in speed to a straight DAS RAID 10 mega-array. I prefer the simplicity of setting it up as RAID 10 and forget it than having to learn/understand the ins and outs of NAS since I don't need a shared user environment just yet.

    I appreciate the suggestion, if I'm wrong about using the SSDs for cache then feel free to correct. My understanding of NAS's is far more limited and I'm not sure what all the setup choices involve trade-off wise w.r.t. speed, size of volume, and data safety.
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  4. #4  
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    I guess the Areca in raid 60 is a good option for you.
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  5. #5  
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    I'm not for or against, just giving my input as a person who has worked on both extensively with high res footage and in large scale productions. Disclaimer: I haven't heard anyone mention RAID 10 in quite a few years.

    I would look seriously at the NAS solutions.

    The biggest advantage of a NAS for me is monitoring / alerts and software solutions for backup/management. DAS management tools tend to suck pretty bad and when things go wrong you end up in a command line with customer support, so in the long run it's almost more complex than a NAS if you run into any issues.. In this day and age, I feel a lot more nervous about my data DAS than I do on a big QNAP or Synology.

    QNAP is probably going to outperform anything in their price range. I have also used a lot of synology solutions.

    If you're sinking that kind of money, I'd consider it a bonus to have a multiple client solution and a stand-alone server. It seems crazy to me to spend thousands of $ on something I can't connect a second or third computer.

    a NAS will hold with a "strait DAS 10 mega array" for editing just fine. I've never tried to make them race, but we edit 8k footage with multiple clients without a problem over NAS/SAN and 10GbE. Yes, the DAS will probably be a faster in benchmarks with a single client but once you get to real work you won't see any significant performance gains. You also have to remember that the NAS is a computer, so it can be doing tasks as well while your edit bay is locked up doing something else.

    The SSD/m2 bays for cache are nice if you're doing lots of small file transactions with clients, but you simply don't have to use them if you don't want to worry about it. I've never attempted to configure them as anything other than a caching pool, so I don't know if they can be setup a different way. Realistically you would be looking at a different model though if you want to get to 120+ TB out of it.

    Just my .02 cents. Putting that much effort into a DAS solution seems like a wasted effort and creates a massive bottleneck in workflow.
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  6. #6  
    The SSD/m.2 feature of the QNAP is for virtualization workloads, not video playback. You can of course provision your own SSD pool for disk less playback, but the QNAP's caching strategy (and hence performance improvement) is not for the NLE user.

    I have two 872XTs, loaded with He10 drives and no SSD nor m.2.
    Michael Tiemann, Chapel Hill NC

    "Dream so big you can share!"
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  7. #7  
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    Hi Grayson -
    I do nothing but install NAS systems, so believe me, I want to promote the use of QNAP and Synology (and other shared storage) systems. With that said, if you are a single user, you have to be crazy to purchase a QNAP, and
    go thru the aggrivation of doing the setup, if you are not technically inclined. And a stand alone thunderbolt 3 RAID array from Areca, G-Tech, Promise or Lacie will outperform a single user connected 10G to a QNAP or Synology system.
    Shared storage - well, that's another story - but you are not looking for shared storage.
    Now for the specifics of the other boxes. G-Tech, Promise and Lacie do not sell empty drive chassis. They come loaded with drives, pre formatted, and you pay a premium for this. The Areca chassis comes empty - you put in your own drives.
    I am very familar with the Areca setup, back from the days of building Mac server systems, and using the Areca host adaptors in these systems. So I am familiar with doing the setup of an Areca RAID. Certainly easier than doing a QNAP
    or Synology setup, but it is NOT PLUG AND PLAY. If you are not technical, or don't want to research this, you will become frustrated. If you just want to buy a box, plug it in, and have it work - get the G-Tech, Promise or Lacie.
    It will just plug in and work, and give you the results that you want.
    Many users that respond to threads on storage are technical users, that are well versed in solving complex problems. If you are an editor, and want a drive, so you can get to work, and don't want to suffer, or pay someone to help you, just
    follow my advice, and you will have no frustrations.

    Bob Zelin
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Rob Anderson's Avatar
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    Hi Grayson. We are Authorized Dealers for both G-Technology and LaCie and we can walk you through best storage options. I can also offer you a very healthy RU discount. Drop me a PM or an email.
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