Thread: 2k prores is awesome

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  1. #11  
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    I think you're much better off shooting in 4K (or whatever the native resolution of the camera is) and then downrezing to HD for the offline edit. You can choose to use the ProRes files for the final or conform back to the camera originals for the final, whatever your budget and schedule will allow. This will give you the ability to deliver in 4K if you ever need to, or you can stick to 2K/HD if that's all the client needs.

    The settings you use for converting the R3Ds to ProRes are critical, so make sure you have the right color temp, exposure, LUTs, and so on.
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  2. #12  
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    The whole point of this is to not have to fuck with 4k. There is a ton of stuff that is never ever ever gonna be 4k. The client that wanted me to shoot 2k said, "our channel is 720p. Can you shoot that?" . I have to shoot a commercial for an old folks home. Nobody wants anything to do with any Ks. The editor certainly doesn't want to fuck with r3ds for this. 2k prores we can shoot all day without a DIT. It is a great work flow for stuff that doesn't need r3ds. Basically stuff that would shoot on a different camera. What I'm saying is rather than having to rent a low rent camera, or own a second camera, this works great.
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Tommaso Alvisi's Avatar
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    Yeah!

    And also you get a smoother, more organic image (and especially at higher ISOs if needed too) without having to deal with grain management in post and debayering.

    Oh and also a snappier and much cooler workstation without all that debayering overhead and to boot, a smoother editing/coloring viewing.
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  4. #14  
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    I guess that I will have to admit to using ProRes 4444 2k almost exclusively. I tested 8k R3D on the Helium vs 4k ProRes vs 2k ProRes and found a lot more chroma noise in the 8k R3D with a lot more effort to work with the files. I really didn't find any difference visually between the 4k and 2k ProRes, perhaps because the 4k is only 422 and not 4444, but that is a guess. I also did not like the 4k ProRes because the maximum speed is 30 fps, whereas the 2k can match any R3D speed. As others have mentioned, I am amazed at the image quality of 2k 4444 ProRes in many different respects, including that my 480 Minimag lasts for about 3 hours of recording vs less than 1 hours with R3D fairly compressed (10:1). Maybe if shooting R3D at very low compression it is better, and for content where 4k is required, but I think that the 8k sensor when crunched down to 2k delivery in camera is magic. I only wish the final product looked as good after the file compression by YouTube. Even watching Netflix, I really don't see any difference in the 4k content on my fairly new Sony 4k capable TV.

    As an aside, when you are shooting images with a shutter speed of 1/48 second, and especially with manual focus and a shallow depth of field, and add in camera and subject movement, there is a lot of blur going on here that more "k" just doesn't help too much. Then many add filters to soften the image, or use vintage lenses. Very different from still photography with 1/500 second exposure and very accurate autofocus on a single frame.
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  5. #15  
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    I have been asked many times to shoot only proves and have always talked them into letting me shoot raw-
    It is an issue though with a few clients and some will only let me shoot Alexa because of it.
    Always just seemed like a waste not using the raw coming from a photo background.
    Full frame on the monster without huge files does sound good- might try on next job...
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  6. #16  
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    So I can shoot pro res 120fps without having that ugly crop issue? ������
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  7. #17  
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    My bad, looks like even in ProRes 2k you cannot go any faster than 60 fps
    Last edited by Jon Dishler; 08-05-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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  8. #18  
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    ProRes 4444XQ is 4.5:1 compression which is very low. With an 8 k source we get 16 pixels to one blending in 2k ProResXQ and with log format 12 bit delivery (IPP2/Log3G10) we can certainly encode 16 bits of raw data. I was reviewing the Yedlin site, and it really points to this being a very good approach, although he is obviously more in the Alexa camp. He maintains there is no magic to raw data acquisition, other than potentially less compression. I found this particularly interesting: http://www.yedlin.net/170728.html. I do believe that human vision is barely able to see 1 pixel of HD content at normal viewing distances, and when surrounded by other similar colored pixels is invisible. Our vision is much better at picking out contrast, edges, shades of color. He makes some good points about halation, which is a much bigger effect. Add to this motion blur, depth of field blur, intentional softening of the image with lenses, filters, etc. and I am left believing that for most all applications 2k is sufficient. I do, however, suspect that HDR is important, especially under brighter viewing conditions. He has some very compelling examples of even for detailed wide images, more "k" helps but is not the whole story. For special effects and certain applications, 4k is certainly better. I also like his 3-D representations of color and explanation of LUTS, even tetrahedral having some limitations. Most importantly, in my opinion, starting with an 8k source (Helium sensor) and down resolving it to 2k with low compression, is why these images are so nice.
    Last edited by Jon Dishler; 08-05-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Scot Yount's Avatar
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    My head is spinning.....
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Christopher S Johnson's Avatar
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    I love shooting Prores, except lately we've been having a lot of problems with Proxy Buffer Overflow. Supposedly it was fixed in firmware updates, but it recently ruined an interview session where we were rolling on hour long clips. I tried UDF and secure formatting, but as long as PBO is still an issue, R3D will always be my go to when you absolutely need the footage.
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