Thread: 8k r3d 5:1- 6 STOP UNDER AND OVER EXPOSE TEST

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  1. #11  
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    I concur. GioScopes help alot
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    As always, the reference is taken too high. Iso 1600 should be native and the starting point.

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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    The iris over/under test is good at revealing what happens at the point of clipping and what happens deep in the noise floor. I just hope that people understand that with any digital system once you've hard clipped/over exposed into the heavens and hard crushed/under exposed into the noise floor there's nothing left to salvage. Honestly, worked the same way for film. There is a point where nothing exists.
    Actually, I think film was the opposite: negative was usually pretty kind to the highlights if you over-exposed a little bit, like 2/3 stop or 1 full stop. We often told people shooting for TV to do that, because that way we had a "thicker negative" that would yield more image.

    With digital, we found the highlight range was more limited and you always had to protect the highlights whenever possible... because when it's clipped, it's gone forever. The histograms will tell you very quickly when the specular highlights have slammed into the digital ceiling. Ideally, the exposure is somewhere in the middle, but we get that real-world shooting conditions go all over the map, and that's just life (and weather and smoke and new shooting days and pickups and so on). A reasonable colorist can always match the material.
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    Actually, I think film was the opposite: negative was usually pretty kind to the highlights if you over-exposed a little bit, like 2/3 stop or 1 full stop. We often told people shooting for TV to do that, because that way we had a "thicker negative" that would yield more image.
    The reverse was also true for reversal film wich acts more like digital (over exposure are lost infos).
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Aris_Gavriilidis's Avatar
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    Rating Monstro at a 1600 base ISO seems like a good idea based on what I see here, really surprised to see it clip this bad at +5 over, even the Weapon and Epic Dragon did better on the ACS test from 2015. What OLPF was in the camera?
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  6. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    I have not seen all the evidence I want yet, but neither the Alexa nor the DSMC1/2 can handle tail lights properly.
    As every other digital camera in this domain, where Alexa leads in that aspect.
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  7. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aris_Gavriilidis View Post
    Rating Monstro at a 1600 base ISO seems like a good idea based on what I see here, really surprised to see it clip this bad at +5 over, even the Weapon and Epic Dragon did better on the ACS test from 2015. What OLPF was in the camera?
    Higher rating does to shadows what lower does to highlights. With additional price of a stop under thinner image overall, further degraded by effect of compression on low signal values.

    You don't have any reference on face light values to draw comparisons.



    Also, expecting marvelous lattitude and transition to clip in high(er) compression ("that which throws out data") is looking for the flowers with a lawnmower.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Higher rating does to shadows what lower does to highlights. With additional price of a stop under thinner image overall, further degraded by effect of compression on low signal values.

    You don't have any reference on face light values to draw comparisons.



    Also, expecting marvelous lattitude and transition to clip in high(er) compression ("that which throws out data") is looking for the flowers with a lawnmower.

    You don't see compression at 1600 iso level if you are below compression 1:8 , but above 1:12. So you don't degrade the low signal value if you expose for 1600 iso. We always speak about the highlight war but Alexa is crap in lowlight. Alexa is a 800 iso camera, Dragon and Monstro shine at 1600iso.
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  9. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    You don't see compression at 1600 iso level if you are below compression 1:8 , but above 1:12.
    Yes I do.

    And with guesswork that's also oversimplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    So you don't degrade the low signal value if you expose for 1600 iso.
    If you rate any camera a stop higher you degrade the signal density by underexposing one stop.
    If the material is also compressed there is additional penalty in low signal values and lattitude properties. Penalty which depends on type of compression.


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    We always speak about the highlight war but Alexa is crap in lowlight. Alexa is a 800 iso camera, Dragon and Monstro shine at 1600iso.
    It's not that simple.

    Camera sensitivity is one thing.
    DR utilization by the camera user is another.

    Red cameras rated at 800 have superior shadow rendition than Alexa. Which also depends on transformation from log.
    Rated at 1600...not really.

    Pushing the signal to see more in the blacks has a price.
    And that price primarily affects density.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    I did a more detailed compression test and I can see the difference between
    1:2, 1:5, 1:8, 1:12 and 1:18.

    At 100% zoom already at 1:5 the quality of noise and smaller details are being reduced and at each step there is further reduction.
    Especially at 1:12 the noise has clear compression patters and details are not there as much any more.

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