Thread: The New Mac Pro is Here!!!

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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    I seriously don’t get the bitching about the price. The Mac Pro was never for the average user. If it’s too expensive for you, odds are you really don’t need one.

    I look at it this way. I anticipate spending about 10k on mine. For something that I will use almost every day for a good 5 years to make money, that cost is pretty irrelevant. My current system is going on 7 years now. The price doesn’t phase me.
    Oh yeah, totally agree. Also folks don't take software license costs into account - the hardware is often less than that cost per machine! For Avengers: Endgame I got us to upgrade to 48-core systems for the render farm because you're paying Arnold licenses per unit, not per core...

    That said, the $6000 option is still kinda a lousy deal if it will be slower than a $4000 PC for most professional tasks... and seriously a 0.25TB SSD - it's the 2019 equivalent of one of those little 4 megabyte compact flash cards that Canon would bundle with their cameras that you throw away instantly haha.

    RE: keeping stuff for many years - absolutely. It is awkward timing since PCIe 4.0 is here (have you SEEN the speeds those PCIe 4.0 SSDs are getting - 5GB/sec already!! that's what you want for 8K...) - there's no way I'm spending $10k on a system that won't let me plug in one of those suckers.

    Bruce Allen
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  2. #62  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    True, but speed isn’t much an issue with r3d. You can edit 8k r3d off single 7200rpm drives if you had to. All my scratch go on an external nas so fast internal ssds were never a huge deal. Yeah you want a fast boot an another internal ssd for application scratch, but everything else is external.

    We get 2 internal ssd options on this Mac Pro. And Pegasus already announced a sata drive cage for above the pci slots inside.
    Shoot for the Impossible...Then do it.

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  3. #63  
    Senior Member andrewhake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    I seriously donít get the bitching about the price. The Mac Pro was never for the average user. If itís too expensive for you, odds are you really donít need one.

    I look at it this way. I anticipate spending about 10k on mine. For something that I will use almost every day for a good 5 years to make money, that cost is pretty irrelevant. My current system is going on 7 years now. The price doesnít phase me.
    For those concerned about price I would recommend spec-ing out a similar HP Z8 workstation. Just moving to an 8 core Xeon with 3.5Ghz base clock will put you well above $7000.
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  4. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    Apple won't bring NVidia support, when AMD goes bankrupt, Apple will build a GPU themselves, buy a third party GPU or go bankrupt themselves, they rather die than use NVidia..
    I don't doubt the friction between Apple and Nvidia but I'm not sure I would put it on the same scale as what happened between Apple and Qualcomm. Consider that Apple put aside their gripes with Qualcomm (including coughing up several billion $$$$) to continue doing business with them as it would effect their bottom line not to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    I seriously don’t get the bitching about the price. The Mac Pro was never for the average user. If it’s too expensive for you, odds are you really don’t need one.
    I mostly agree. These systems offer a lot of built in power and a considerable amount of headroom for more.
    I would even say they surpass some of the most ambitious wish lists I remember reading.
    This was meant for a certain type of power user that has clients that can cover the costs of this hardware.
    The power requirements alone should make one pause as this system and a 6K monitor or two might be enough to start tripping circuit breakers.

    It should be noted how in the last 5 years the iOS/Mac platform now has addressed pro needs in various price points, devices, shapes, sizes, expansion options, etc. The latest iMac/iMac Pros is likely more than enough for many workflows
    and that can be expanded with TB3.

    My only issue is the "Apple tax" does seem to be a bit higher in the last few releases and they might be careful with pricing themselves out of certain mid range to lower in price points.

    There's always room for improvement (Nvidia, perhaps an even lower cost version of the Mac Pro) but I truly feel like they are effectively addressing the wide ranging needs of the Pro community.

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  5. #65  
    Senior Member andrewhake's Avatar
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    #485: WWDC and Interview with the Mac Pro Product Manager

    https://www.relay.fm/mpu/485
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  6. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewhake View Post
    #485: WWDC and Interview with the Mac Pro Product Manager

    https://www.relay.fm/mpu/485
    Great find and VERY informative. Thanks.

    Brian Timmons
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  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    True, but speed isn’t much an issue with r3d. You can edit 8k r3d off single 7200rpm drives if you had to. All my scratch go on an external nas so fast internal ssds were never a huge deal. Yeah you want a fast boot an another internal ssd for application scratch, but everything else is external.

    We get 2 internal ssd options on this Mac Pro. And Pegasus already announced a sata drive cage for above the pci slots inside.
    I'm guessing you don't deal a lot with 4K VFX shots! Burning through multi-layer 4K and above .exr files or uncompressed DPX files.

    When VFX goes to 8K, that's what you'll want a nice PCIe 4.0 SSD for! Just sucks that this Mac Pro won't allow for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewhake View Post
    For those concerned about price I would recommend spec-ing out a similar HP Z8 workstation. Just moving to an 8 core Xeon with 3.5Ghz base clock will put you well above $7000.
    Yeah but HP's prices are stupid too.

    Puget Systems have good support and aren't cheap but they're $1500 less than that $6000 Mac.

    An 8-core Xeon with 4.3ghz base, 256GB SSD, 32GB RAM, 10G ethernet, and an RTX 2070 is $4500:
    https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/pea.../customize.php

    Or more relevantly, here's an 8-core 3.6ghz system, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, RTX 2080 for $2780:
    https://www.amazon.com/Dell-8930-Spe.../dp/B07QLNSXV8

    Or really this $2000 system with a 3.6ghz 8-core, 32GB RAM and a 512GB SSD and a 1080:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WLMY9N4

    Now that's 1/3rd the price of that Mac Pro. And probably both that system and the $6000 Mac Pro will be similarly useless because they'll almost immediately bottleneck on the RAM and lack of SSD space. At least the $2000 system would bottleneck later because at least it has 512GB not 256GB haha!

    I know, I know, the last two aren't Xeons and it don't have ECC RAM. But guess what? In our industry, you don't need a Xeon with ECC RAM.

    This is speaking as a guy who personally owns a 40-core dual Xeon with 384GB ECC RAM. It's great for Houdini sims. ECC RAM still isn't necessary but Xeon is necessary to address that quantity of RAM.

    For editing and grading, my 4ghz 8-core standard Core i7 non-Xeon with 128GB of RAM, fast NVIDIA GPUs and many TBs of M.2 storage is a better choice.

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  8. #68  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    Yeah you’re right. I do sometimes move some stuff to my scratch ssd for AE work.
    Shoot for the Impossible...Then do it.

    Jarek Zabczynski
    Director / Editor / Cinematographer


    Weapon 8K | www.jarek.com | WE'LL BE ALRIGHT (Music Video) | BAJO EL SOL (Music Video)
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  9. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Meyer View Post
    Misha your paper benchmarks constantly, relentlessly telling us how AMD cards can keep up with nVidia's best in resolve always makes me wonder why they do so badly then in other applications.

    Perhaps with Apple's money behind Metal they will be able to pull even in more areas but I find it hard to believe they'll make up the gap in something like 3d rendering. RTX tech in Octane and Redshift is showing enourmous gains.
    Sponsering developers who don't find pride, added value, or whatever in developing hardware acnostic software.
    Most if not all API's are written in a C++, the fastest way to a quick result with GPU API's is/was CUDA, Apple put some sponsor money in Metal and now lots of them are embracing metal.

    Few companies take an extra step and use C++ and there are even some who go as far as assembly and make their software hardware and OS acnostic, Blackmagic Design is a good example of one of the few.

    FP32 is FP32, memory bandwidth is memory bandwidth no matter what brand you use.
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  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    Sponsering developers who don't find pride, added value, or whatever in developing hardware acnostic software.
    Most if not all API's are written in a C++, the fastest way to a quick result with GPU API's is/was CUDA, Apple put some sponsor money in Metal and now lots of them are embracing metal.

    Few companies take an extra step and use C++ and there are even some who go as far as assembly and make their software hardware and OS acnostic, Blackmagic Design is a good example of one of the few.

    FP32 is FP32, memory bandwidth is memory bandwidth no matter what brand you use.
    Yeah but that's like saying horsepower is horsepower. Yes, it does have an effect on how fast the car will go... but isn't a perfect way to predict track times!

    You'll find that real-world use depends on more than just those dumb numbers, unless you're doing very simple cases.

    Intricacies RE how the cache is setup, how the scheduler works, how the pipeline works, how the compilers are built, how well the data structures fit the hardware, throughput vs latency, etc.

    It's not trivial - differences here can account for MASSIVE (10x) speedups or slowdowns. This is where NVIDIA has a huge real-world advantage currently - and this won't go away in just a year.

    Also, if I were a developer, would I really want to spend a lot of time and money optimizing stuff for this odd case of 4x GCN chips (the core in these Mac Pro GPUs) when AMD has already announced Navi?

    Bruce Allen
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