Thread: The New Mac Pro is Here!!!

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  1. #111  
    If you’re rendering a feature overnight over and over with delivery the next morning, you want the stability of xeon with ECC.

    Good luck walking in to find your i7 crashed on render 2 and now have to have a conversation with distributors about technical difficulties.
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  2. #112  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geran Simpson View Post
    If you’re rendering a feature overnight over and over with delivery the next morning, you want the stability of xeon with ECC.

    Good luck walking in to find your i7 crashed on render 2 and now have to have a conversation with distributors about technical difficulties.
    I've never had an issue with that. Not saying I never experienced software crashes, but so have people running Xeon workstations. Xeon and ECC don't prevent crashes and issues with rendering. Trashcan Mac Pro... Xeon and ECC RAM... plenty of rendering issues and crashes from many many people. It's easy to google and find all the issues people had with it.
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  3. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe View Post
    They need a desktop system with desktop class i-Series (i5, i7, i9) CPU options and some degree of expandability. Like two PCIe slots or what constitutes one of the MPX bays in the new Mac Pro.

    Yes, this would overlap and steal from Mac Pro sales on the low end, but in the long run they will sell more systems overall.
    Oh hell yes. They would sell more of the high-end Mac Pros too, I think. A lot of studios in our industry have gone PC because the iMac GPUs suck. And the Mac Pro is too expensive to be able to buy like 20 of, so it's not going to stem the tide there.

    If you could have five high-end Mac Pros for the Flame and Resolve bays and a few senior artists, maybe another 20 Mac Pros for the farm, backed up by say 20 normal Macs for junior artists (who still need real GPUs), 6-8 laptops for producers, etc, that's a workable thing.

    But since that critical middle thing is missing / really darn expensive, the whole army kinda doesn't work. PC isn't that hard to use if you just buy an off-the-shelf system and install the NVIDIA drivers that are certified for Adobe (NVIDIA did a clever thing there). What sucks is having to mix platforms with both PCs and Macs and worrying about file paths etc. So then you just want to go all-PC for your artist machines and render farm and server (well, you have no choice there).

    Right now Apple is hanging on there because a lot of rendering is CPU-based - so the foot soldiers can use iMacs... but with Redshift, Arnold GPU, V-Ray GPU, Octane, etc the tide is turning fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe View Post
    If they made such a beast with a quad-core i5, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD and no GPU installed (using Intel integrated GPU on the base model), 4 x TB3/USB-C ports, HDMI port and single 10GE port... Price it at $1299 to start, they would sell like crazy. Make an 8-core i7, 512GB SSD, and 8GB Navi GPU config for $2499 and a 10-core i9 with 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, 16GB GPU as the top configuration around $4000, it would still be a winner. And would plug that giant hole between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro.

    Sometimes I think Apple focuses too much effort on the “pro” image aspect of their systems and while that’s fine and good I would also like to see them make a couple more computer offerings so they have computers for everyone and every market.
    Preach, Jeff!

    I mean if HP and Dell ONLY sold Xeons and all-in-ones then Apple would have more of a leg to stand on.

    But they ALSO offer nice 8-core non-Xeons for non-exorbitant prices that you can put nice GPUs in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe View Post
    That said, the new Mac Pro is actually priced competitively within its intended market.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe View Post
    I see them doing exactly as they did with the past cheese grater and they will price right in step with HP and Dell for their comparable Xeon workstations. I’m buying one to start, but fully intend to install aftermarket RAM and possibly SSD storage as well. Eventually I’ll probably have more than a few Mac Pros around here as I did in the past. I’m expecting they will have an update to this new Mac Pro in 18 to 24 months after it launches and that update will be significant, bringing us PCIe v4 and Thunderbolt 4. Neither of which are ready to go at the moment. PCIe v4 will [should] be supported on the next Xeon iteration, which would work timing wise with the subsequent update.
    I think you and I are in the same boat... though Threadripper 2 plus NVIDIA's 7nm cards next year will be tough to pass up.

    Hopefully we will pretty soon get a sense of whether this Mac Pro is going to be taken up by more than just high end editorial finishing and mix stages.

    I knew the old trashcan Mac Pro was going to fail to gain the wide acceptance of its predecessor (I remember publicly calling out all of the issues on Reduser and saying we'd need to wait and see what GPU upgrades Apple make for their proprietary setup... and they never offered 'em!).

    I am not sure about this one. Would be nice if it does well! There are a lot of things to like. For one, the fact that I can run full-screen video out of Resolve without a Blackmagic card! Though I'm sure they'll offer it for Windows too?

    Bruce Allen
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  4. #114  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    How would that compare with 2x 2080ti? I'm just not too familiar with AMD GPUs.
    That depends on the software you are using.

    We use Resolve under windows since 12.5 as our base editing/grading program. Before that we used the Adobe Suite, but got kind of sick of the stability issues.
    In Resolve, with playback only of 8k.R3D files they have around the same speed (upto 25..35 fps, same as I get back from other users using a 2080ti in combo with a 18core intel CPU).
    When you start using effect(OFX and TNR) the Radeon VII takes a lead over the 2080ti, not because of the compute performance(fp32) but the memory bandwidth and latency.

    The nice thing about Davinci Resolve is that it's hardware acnostic, so it doesn't really matter if you use Windows, MacOS or Linux and the same is valid Cuda, openCL or Metal.
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  5. #115  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    Well, I’ll have a better idea what I can get for 10k once preorders begin.
    Shoot for the Impossible...Then do it.

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  6. #116  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Apples Afterburner has no parallel in the PC world.

    If an FPGA is liberally used to perform computationally expensive tasks (Decode, Encode, Debayer, Denoise) and it has has access to ample memory with a high memory bandwidth, it could well outperform a top end GPU.

    AMD IF between GPU is 84 GB/s
    PCIe5.0 has a bandwidth of 128GB/s
    AMD Radeon Pro Vega II : 32 GB : Memory Bandwidth : 1TB/s

    (Microsoft Research ultimately decided that maximum App performance for Azure workloads required a FGPA rather than a multiple GPUs)

    Apple's '19 WWDC seminars are giving master classes on how to tap into hardware acceleration for REAL TIME NLEs.
    They are building in hooks into MacOS to take care of / standardise resource utilisation and let the OS track FPGA (HBM2) memory;

    If Apple are working closely with Blackmagic to get their GPU workloads to work like grease lightning with METAL + AFTERBURNER, and are working with RED to decode&debayer R3Ds with METAL + AFTERBURNER in the R3D SKD, we might end up with Resolve on a Mac that that outperforms a 64 Core PC with a top end Nvidia.

    Looking forward to JK's test results.

    AJ
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  7. #117  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    Well, I’ll have a better idea what I can get for 10k once preorders begin.
    It's best to wait for the reviews.

    Although we already know the performance levels of all the hardware except the FPGA/ASIC thing (3 ProResRAW 8K streams in combination with 2x DUO cards for the de-bayering).

    Don't expect to much for upgrading the Mac Pro in the future, this is probably the last HEDT/SERVER CPU for lga3647.
    PCIe-3 will also be phased out in the coming years in favour of PCIe-4/5 and the same is valid for DDR4 going to DDR5.
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  8. #118  
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    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/ - Metal for Pro Apps

    A great presentation showing how apps can utilize Metal and the new hardware. Can't wait to see what Red is able to do with it for R3D decode!
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  9. #119  
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewhake View Post
    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/ - Metal for Pro Apps

    A great presentation showing how apps can utilize Metal and the new hardware. Can't wait to see what Red is able to do with it for R3D decode!
    Andrew- you're quite good at finding useful nuggets of information.
    Thanks again.

    Brian Timmons
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  10. #120  
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewhake View Post
    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/ - Metal for Pro Apps

    A great presentation showing how apps can utilize Metal and the new hardware. Can't wait to see what Red is able to do with it for R3D decode!
    I wonder how NVidia will react to this? I wouldn't be surprised when RED is going to use the Afterburner FPGA for decoding instead of metal with the GPU's.
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