Thread: The New Mac Pro is Here!!!

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  1. #51  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    I think right now, before knowing full specs and pricing, I’d be looking at this configuration.

    16 core Xeon Processor
    96GB RAM (aftermarket)
    1x Vega II Dual MPX Module
    Afterburner card
    2x1TB SSD

    Plus adding:
    Pegasus dual 3.5mm drive cage, probably SSDs for application scratch.
    Blackmagic Decklink card

    Nice to know I can start with one MPX module and add another or upgrade. Back to the good ol days!
    If we get Nvidia support I can see myself going with 2-4 2080ti cards.
    Shoot for the Impossible...Then do it.

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  2. #52  
    Hmm, this is a kinda cool but also disappointing update.

    The individual components in the $5999 machine are pretty lousy so I guess what you're paying for is all the development costs of that proprietary MPX setup.

    As someone who has run machines with many GPUs, I appreciate the cooling setup.

    I appreciate the power setup less. I guess it's cool that you don't have to plug in external power cables to the GPU (it's powered through a proprietary slot design) but it's also annoying because now there are no power connectors if you need 'em. Apple just cleverly locked you out of plugging a normal (ie good value-for-money) GPU in there and charged a lot of money for the privilege. Uh, OK.

    If the GPUs in these MPX modules were super awesome then this would be a pretty nifty upgrade. But they're not. They're really close to the Instinct MI60 and Radeon VII... which are like, kinda mediocre. Not sure I'd want 4 mediocre GPUs. But anyway...

    If they update this in a year's time with nVidia cards (or AMD steps up with Navi, or heck, Intel makes an awesome GPU) and Apple makes new MPX modules that don't cost a ton, maybe it'll make sense to buy one.

    Just not when these current AMD chips which are pretty out of date in terms of architecture (they're still GCN) are the only option - I'm not too interested in buying 4x kinda-obsolete and inefficient GPUs glued together in an extremely expensive proprietary config.

    I kinda suspect that a 32-core AMD system with two nVidia Titan RTX cards might just beat it and be MUCH less expensive.

    But for the future in 2020 or 2021 with some actual current-gen cards from nVidia or AMD or even Intel it'd be pretty cool. Also I'd guess Intel will be forced to respond to AMD so you might get cheaper faster better CPU options too.

    Of course those will have PCIe 4.0 haha.

    This thing doesn't support PCIe 4.0 does it?

    There you go - I found out how Apple will get all the people who bought the 1st gen new Mac Pro to upgrade! PCIe 4.0!

    AMD with somewhere between 32 and 64 cores (I will evaluate price / performance when it's out) plus PCIe 4.0 and nVIDIA will probably be the way for me next year, but I'm glad the Mac Pro is out there. Missed the mark for but that's cool, and they could still be a contender if they do a good update next year.

    Bruce Allen
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  3. #53  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    There are power connections available inside for standard cards.
    I do hope they bring Nvidia support. Technically nothing stopping them.
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  4. #54  
    Senior Member Chad Lancaster's Avatar
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  5. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    There are power connections available inside for standard cards.
    I do hope they bring Nvidia support. Technically nothing stopping them.
    Oh nice! Yeah if they bring nVIDIA support (or AMD or Intel get more competitive) this could be interesting.

    No interest in overpaying for that 4x-medicore-AMD GPU setup but that can be fixed in a later update.

    I wonder how much the 6K display will be when Apple starts having refurb models BTW?

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  6. #56  
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    Apple won't bring NVidia support, when AMD goes bankrupt, Apple will build a GPU themselves, buy a third party GPU or go bankrupt themselves, they rather die than use NVidia.
    Those Vega 2's are competetive with the quadro GV100 when looking at the same power usage, compute perfomance, memory and memory bandwidth.

    Vega 2 base clock 1400 MHz, 4096 cores ~ 11.47 fp32 Tflops and 1,024 GB/s memory bandwidth, 32 GB HBM2 $ ???
    GV100 base clock 1132 MHz, 5120 cores ~ 11.59 fp32 Tflops and 868.4 GB/s memory bandwidth, 32 GB HBM2 $9,400 https://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Quadro...s%2C233&sr=8-1

    RTX Quadro's have a medio core memory bandwidth upto only 672 GB/s and high latencies compared to HBM2 because of GDDR6, hence the crappy performance with Noise Reduction in combination with 8k.R3D.
    They are very good for playing Battlefield, etc.. with all those pixel shaders.
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  7. #57  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    Apple won't bring NVidia support, when AMD goes bankrupt, Apple will build a GPU themselves, buy a third party GPU or go bankrupt themselves, they rather die than use NVidia.
    Those Vega 2's are competetive with the quadro GV100 when looking at the same power usage, compute perfomance, memory and memory bandwidth.

    Vega 2 base clock 1400 MHz, 4096 cores ~ 11.47 fp32 Tflops and 1,024 GB/s memory bandwidth, 32 GB HBM2 $ ???
    GV100 base clock 1132 MHz, 5120 cores ~ 11.59 fp32 Tflops and 868.4 GB/s memory bandwidth, 32 GB HBM2 $9,400 https://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Quadro...s%2C233&sr=8-1

    RTX Quadro's have a medio core memory bandwidth upto only 672 GB/s and high latencies compared to HBM2 because of GDDR6, hence the crappy performance with Noise Reduction in combination with 8k.R3D.
    They are very good for playing Battlefield, etc.. with all those pixel shaders.

    Misha your paper benchmarks constantly, relentlessly telling us how AMD cards can keep up with nVidia's best in resolve always makes me wonder why they do so badly then in other applications.

    Perhaps with Apple's money behind Metal they will be able to pull even in more areas but I find it hard to believe they'll make up the gap in something like 3d rendering. RTX tech in Octane and Redshift is showing enourmous gains.
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  8. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    Apple won't bring NVidia support, when AMD goes bankrupt, Apple will build a GPU themselves, buy a third party GPU or go bankrupt themselves, they rather die than use NVidia.
    Those Vega 2's are competetive with the quadro GV100 when looking at the same power usage, compute perfomance, memory and memory bandwidth.

    Vega 2 base clock 1400 MHz, 4096 cores ~ 11.47 fp32 Tflops and 1,024 GB/s memory bandwidth, 32 GB HBM2 $ ???
    GV100 base clock 1132 MHz, 5120 cores ~ 11.59 fp32 Tflops and 868.4 GB/s memory bandwidth, 32 GB HBM2 $9,400 https://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Quadro...s%2C233&sr=8-1

    RTX Quadro's have a medio core memory bandwidth upto only 672 GB/s and high latencies compared to HBM2 because of GDDR6, hence the crappy performance with Noise Reduction in combination with 8k.R3D.
    They are very good for playing Battlefield, etc.. with all those pixel shaders.
    "Compute performance" is not a simple number like that at all. Well, maybe if all you're doing is just simple denoising with Neat Video on 8K footage all day.

    And those pixel shaders you deride as being good for games are also good for things like rendering using Redshift, V-Ray GPU and Arnold GPU. Coupled with RTX for ray intersection calculations. Some things need pixel shaders, some need ray intersections, others need integer performance! Also deep learning - there is so much coming in terms of AI techniques for video.

    Coders depend on an ecosystem to wring the best out of the hardware. Right now, CUDA is massively, massively ahead in this.

    Don't get me wrong - I want competition and prefer open standards, but NVIDIA is way ahead, currently.

    So right now I'm just saying buying 4x of those AMD GPUs is a massive waste of money unless you've researched and found they are competitive in those specific tasks you need (eg Neat Video).

    I personally bet that in other things (deep learning, Redshift etc) they will get crushed by much cheaper systems. And in either event, for bandwidth surely you want PCIe 4.0 for future proofing? I get that most tasks are not bandwidth-constrained but it sucks this Mac doesn't support PCIe 4.0 whereas the new AMD Ryzen systems do.

    Bruce Allen
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  9. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Allen View Post
    The individual components in the $5999 machine are pretty lousy so I guess what you're paying for is all the development costs of that proprietary MPX setup.
    Everyone has their hardware opinions, but even if you aren't an Apple fan, you have to admit that this was a *giant* step in the right direction for professionals. I'm not sure where you get the "lousy" specs from but there are some great videos from Linus Tech Tips on the Mac Pro and even he's mostly impressed.
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  10. #60  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    I seriously don’t get the bitching about the price. The Mac Pro was never for the average user. If it’s too expensive for you, odds are you really don’t need one.

    I look at it this way. I anticipate spending about 10k on mine. For something that I will use almost every day for a good 5 years to make money, that cost is pretty irrelevant. My current system is going on 7 years now. The price doesn’t phase me.
    Shoot for the Impossible...Then do it.

    Jarek Zabczynski
    Director / Editor / Cinematographer


    Weapon 8K | www.jarek.com | WE'LL BE ALRIGHT (Music Video) | BAJO EL SOL (Music Video)
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