Thread: The New Mac Pro is Here!!!

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  1. #161  
    Senior Member AndreeMarkefors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Duncan View Post
    No, you can't build a part for part identical PC for cheap, but you can outrun/match the performance for $1800 after taxes.
    Not really. You can match the compute performance (CPU/GPU) for a lot less money if you're building a Windows based machine yourself. But it will be a Windows machine.

    If you just want "a computer" and want to build it yourself, that is one way to go. But if you want a Mac, you need to look at Apple's offerings and that excludes home built PCs.

    I'm leaving Hackintoshes out, even if they are the Goldilocks computer for some.
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  2. #162  
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    This is an interesting post regarding the "INFINITY FABRIC" tech used to bridge the dual GPUs
    in the 2k19 Mac Pros.

    https://themagicalworldofsakie.wordp...-finalcut-pro/

    The post essentially summarizes some of the major points featured in the WWDC presentation on METAL.

    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/


    One of the main points of interest is that INFINITY FABRIC is 5x faster than PCI 3 and much faster and efficient at transferring data between the CPU and the GPU. This in itself shows that performance should be considerably better with these APPLE MPX GPU modules in the Mac Pro than simply adding multiple GPU cards through regular PCI 3 slots.

    It also seems that parts of METAL were rewritten to take advantage of all of this.

    If anything, these systems do not seem to be just packaging PC parts and throwing an Apple tax on them.
    Some are looking at these as typical PC towers in a Apple facade when they are much more in line with SGI or Sun workstations from years ago.
    Considering the custom design, hardware (INFINITY FABRIC/MPX MODULES, FPGA based AFTERBURNER card) and extreme specs (i.e 1.5 TB ram) I think this is a fair analogy.

    Will be interesting when these systems are benchmarked compared to other Macs and PCs but I'm willing to bet applications that fully support what the Mac Pros have to offer will get much greater performance boosts than people think.

    Brian Timmons
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  3. #163  
    Senior Member Frank Glencairn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreeMarkefors View Post
    .. But it will be a Windows machine.
    No, it will be a Resolve (or whatever you make your money with) Machine.
    You don't get paid for a OS, cause you don't get any paid work done in a OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post
    One of the main points of interest is that INFINITY FABRIC is 5x faster than PCI 3 ...
    You have nothing that can saturate a 16x PCI 3 in the first place and now PCI 4 is already out - that will go a long time, before it becomes a bottle neck for you.
    For now, the Infinity Fabric it's like buying an Lamborghini in a country with an 80mph speed limit - if you have money to burn, be my guest.
    Last edited by Frank Glencairn; 06-17-2019 at 02:42 AM.
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  4. #164  
    Senior Member AndreeMarkefors's Avatar
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    I agree with your post, but just want to address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post
    If anything, these systems do not seem to be just packaging PC parts and throwing an Apple tax on them.
    General comment, not directed at you Brian:

    AppleTax doesn't exist. What people mean by AppleTax would be true if Apple bought the same generic components from places like NewEgg and then sold "their" prebuilt computer in a generic case with an Apple logo on it, for a higher price. That is not what's happening, just like Brian says.

    People who are OS agnostic, or simply 95%+ strictly number crunching oriented, tend to filter out everything (deliberately or not) that has to do with material selection, manufacturing and maintenance of coordinated hardware/software development.

    It's quite alright to look at the price difference between a 'build-it-yourself' – ultimately running Windows computer, and a Mac with similar hardware components and conclude that the homebuilt (or prebuilt by another manufacturer) computer gives you more compute power per dollar. This is fact in 100% of cases, most likely.

    Just realise that the price difference between these computers is not reflecting 'nothing'. To a Mac user, the price difference is money well spent for various individual reasons, reflecting added value for this user.

    I'll even go as far as looking at the infamous $999 stand, as a good example. Anyone who looks at this stand, sees the price and then buys it, has gone though a thought process of why the price is justified in their specific case. The intricate balancing/load reducing mechanism and/or magnetic quick lock might be enough reason. I can see how someone who plans to bring their display with them in a hardcase several times per week might find such a stand "invaluable".

    Just like people who buy RED's tactical top plate—a small piece of metal with drilled holes and a few basic connections—for $875 have their own reasons.

    I find it cool listening to people talking about their own experiences (hopefully good) with cameras or computers or whatever, but it's extremely uncool when people dismiss entire groups of users (brand related or not), because they themselves lack insight.
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  5. #165  
    Senior Member AndreeMarkefors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
    No, it will be a Resolve (or whatever you make your money with) Machine.
    You don't get paid for a OS, cause you don't get any paid work done in a OS.
    Well, not 'no'. It will be a Windows (or maybe Linux) machine (as that was my example).

    But if in your case you can abstract the OS because you only use it as an invisible layer to allow you to leverage your hardware in a few specific apps, then you are free to chose components at your leisure and combine them as best you know how.

    The thing I'm saying is you are 100% correct, in terms of your needs. But they don't apply to anyone else. But it's a pretty large planet. There are lots of other users with simliar goals and needs as you. Even if what you think don't apply to them, at least it aligns.
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  6. #166  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
    No, it will be a Resolve (or whatever you make your money with) Machine.
    You don't get paid for a OS, cause you don't get any paid work done in a OS.
    I'll try to steer clear of arguing semantics. Can it be agreed that an app like Resolve sits on top of a foundation provided by an OS
    and that foundation (kernel, frameworks, drivers, development environment, design, and greater app ecosystem) has a considerable effect on
    your experience and options when getting work done?

    I'm definitely not trying to steer this into a platform war. Everyone has preferences and it's great to have options.
    I personally hope Linux can grow to be a more layperson friendly platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
    You have nothing that can saturate a 16x PCI 3 in the first place and now PCI 4 is already out - that will go a long time, before it becomes a bottle neck for you.
    For now, the Infinity Fabric it's like buying an Lamborghini in a country with an 80mph speed limit - if you have money to burn, be my guest.
    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/
    Please go to 49:50

    Again, there seems to be more going on than simply adding multiple GPU cards through regular PCI 3 slots
    and it's demonstrably making a difference in how one can work.

    They're already demonstrating multistream realtime 8K Prores with just the GPUs. Will see how other uses fair.

    Fun note: RU's Mark Toia shot the wildlife footage in the demo.

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  7. #167  
    Senior Member Frank Glencairn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post
    I'll try to steer clear of arguing semantics. Can it be agreed that an app like Resolve sits on top of a foundation provided by an OS
    and that foundation (kernel, frameworks, drivers, development environment, design, and greater app ecosystem) has a considerable effect on
    your experience and options when getting work done?

    I'm definitely not trying to steer this into a platform war. Everyone has preferences and it's great to have options.
    I personally hope Linux can grow to be a more layperson friendly platform.



    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/

    They're already demonstrating multistream realtime 8K Prores with just the GPUs. Will see how other uses fair.

    Fun note: RU's Mark Toia shot the wildlife footage in the demo.


    BRITIM/MEDIA
    And they had to convert it to Prores first, since it couldn't handle three R3D 8K streams - even a 2 year old Treadripper system for a fraction of the price, can handle three 8K Prores streams (and why would you need that anyway - picture in picture?) - so what gives?
    Frank Glencairn
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  8. #168  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreeMarkefors View Post
    I find it cool listening to people talking about their own experiences (hopefully good) with cameras or computers or whatever, but it's extremely uncool when people dismiss entire groups of users (brand related or not), because they themselves lack insight.
    Agreed. RED, Apple, nor any other company is perfect and criticism can be a good thing. The great companies (if not people) know how to leverage criticism into building better products. I do think some of the criticism, however, is questionable and not fully informed nor objective.

    So far, it looks like Apple went much further than simply bundling beefier hardware into a new system. From the software up to the hardware it looks like they made novel and fundamental changes that are creating tangible results.

    Having said that, we will see the full real world uses once the systems are out.

    Brian Timmons
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  9. #169  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
    And they had to convert it to Prores first, since it couldn't handle three R3D 8K streams - even a 2 year old Treadripper system for a fraction of the price, can handle three 8K Prores streams (and why would you need that anyway - picture in picture?) - so what gives?
    RED is still prepping R3D for Metal.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/...o-display-xdr/

    Red Digital Cinema
    “Apple’s new hardware will bring a mind-blowing level of performance to Metal-accelerated, proxy-free R3D workflows in Final Cut Pro X that editors truly have never seen before. We are very excited to bring a Metal-optimized version of R3D in September.” — Jarred Land, president, Red Digital Cinema



    Brian Timmons
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  10. #170  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post
    RED is still prepping R3D for Metal.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/...o-display-xdr/

    Red Digital Cinema
    “Apple’s new hardware will bring a mind-blowing level of performance to Metal-accelerated, proxy-free R3D workflows in Final Cut Pro X that editors truly have never seen before. We are very excited to bring a Metal-optimized version of R3D in September.” — Jarred Land, president, Red Digital Cinema



    Brian Timmons
    BRITIM/MEDIA
    Let's hope so but the same was said about the Radeon Pro SSG, and that turned out to be a flop.
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