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  1. #1 UPGRADING BEFORE DSMC3. BEST COURSE OF ACTION? 
    Senior Member William Long's Avatar
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    I have a Scarlet-W that I am very happy with. However, it is my intention to upgrade to a Gemini (for low light capability) most probably via a Dragon-X, due to my limited resources.


    My question to this learned forum relates to DMSC3 and the timing of these steps?

    1. Shall I upgrade to Dragon-X, then wait for DMSC3, then upgrade to Gemini (whatever it has become!) ?

    2. Upgrade to Dragon-X, Upgrade to Gemini, and see what DMSC3 does to Gemini thereafter ?

    3. Stay with Scarlet-W, and nervously hope that there is an upgrade into DMSC3 ?

    I realise that what I am asking is a bit like 'how long is a piece of string' but any advice, thoughts or insight would be gratefully appreciated.

    Many thanks!
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  2. #2  
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    I would say go for gemini as soon as possible. With that camera you’re good to go for the next 5-8 years, which should be more than enough for making itself paid and ready for the next upgrade.
    Sérgio Perez

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  3. #3  
    Senior Member William Long's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Sérgio! Yes I think what you say is correct and it would certainly pay for itself in that time frame. My concern (perhaps greed?) is wondering how different a DMSC3 Gemini would be and if there is any benefit/sense in waiting until 2020 before upgrading?
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    We dont know, when RED will release DMSC3.

    Jarred did say some time ago that the DMSC2 would last to at least 2020...

    I would wait til CINEGEAR.
    RED was quite silent this year at NAB, maybe they have some news at CINEGEAR. Back in May 2018 they released DSMC Unified... This was the last time that RED had really big news. Although they announced Dragon-X 5k in November 2018. RED also annouced RED RANGER a few month ago, but this camera is not for sale.

    Its time for some BIG NEWS from RED. hehehe
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    Next year is the year for big camera announcements.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    Next year is the year for big camera announcements.
    I'm thinking by the end of year, the "Hydrogen Module / Actual camera thing" is going to be announced. Jarred recently made this post.



    This is in response to the announcement last month that RED camera division is officially in charge of the change of direction of what was the "Hydrogen 2D Cinema Module".

    https://h4vuser.net/t/big-changes-to...n-program/8562

    Scarlet-W replacement anyone? :P
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member William Long's Avatar
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    Yes Norbert, I will certainly wait for Cinegear and see if anything pops up. I think what Bob says is true that the big announcements will be sometime next year. So should one bump up to a Dragon-X just to be sure you are on the same field ??

    Not so interested about the phone Adam! :))
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Long View Post
    Yes Norbert, I will certainly wait for Cinegear and see if anything pops up. I think what Bob says is true that the big announcements will be sometime next year. So should one bump up to a Dragon-X just to be sure you are on the same field ??

    Not so interested about the phone Adam! :))
    William, here's a more thought out answer, my own take on the current time we are, based on my own experience.

    I've used in challenging situations the Epic Dragon, MX, Scarlet W, Gemini, Helium and Monstro.

    I would say Epic Dragon and Scarlet W are very close cousins and the advantages of DSMC2 are not that big to the Epic Dragon with the LLOLPF. Still love the Epic Dragon and its as current in terms of image quality as any other top end recent camera competitor.

    The Scarlet W is also a great camera, as you know, and image quality is stunning. On par with the Epic Dragon.

    Helium is amazing, it has a very distinctive look, I would say I prefer the Dragon look but 8K just completely opens up other possibilities. And I really don't understand the complaints about noise. It performs even a bit better than Epic Dragon LLOLPF. I owned a Helium and upgraded from the Epic Dragon. It was a great upgrade. I have to say I suggested it to a very close friend that made me a similar question to yours. He had the Epic MX and wanted to buy a DSMC2. Monstro was out of the question and he was asking Gemini and Helium. I suggested Helium. Because he wanted to stay with the camera for 5 to 8 years for proper return of investment. The Gemini has, in my view, better colours, but the Helium is more versatile and is more marketable here for clients. He's very happy with it and being the only Helium in town his camera is being used in practically all local productions with a proper budget.

    Monstro is in a class of its own, but it also has a price that places it for another market.

    Gemini is a winner. Compared to all the others, excluding Monstro, it has great color rendition and the sensor is mind blowing in DR and Low Light performance. The best 4K output camera on the market, including the Arris, in my opinion.

    THe DSMC2 system is working very well, lots of accessories and support from third parties, Kipertie ND mount and Tilta/teradek correct the only few things that are lacking which is the connectivity and internal ND's situation.

    I believe we will be in a 4K world for a long time (even though Japan Olympics in 2020), so if I were you, I would get the Gemini, or even Helium, with Red Armor, and aim not for DSMC3 immediately, but to get a great set of lenses like the Tokina Vista Primes in the next 3 or 4 years. Then upgrade.

    Remember, DSMC1 Epic X (not M) price was, for the whole system, about 39K with basic accessories, when released. You already have basic DSMC2 accessories if you have the Scarlet W. I'm sure you won't be disappointed in going Helium or Gemini. The Dragon X? Hmm, I wouldn't go there. If I had a Raven, or was just entering the Red ecosystem? Absolutely. But going Dragon X would be a bit of a side step, like going Epic Dragon to Scarlet W.
    Sérgio Perez

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  9.   This is the last RED TEAM post in this thread.   #9  
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Long View Post
    Yes Norbert, I will certainly wait for Cinegear and see if anything pops up. I think what Bob says is true that the big announcements will be sometime next year. So should one bump up to a Dragon-X just to be sure you are on the same field ??

    Not so interested about the phone Adam! :))
    You won't be seeing DSMC3 until at least the END of next year... so you will be waiting for a while if you want to wait it out.

    And as per the phone camera comment.... As I said in that post referenced, I am also making a different "specialty" camera but It's not going to be anything like what was shown over by the Hydrogen team. I'm sure some people will make it their A camera for some things, but for most of you here, that will be more likely be a C camera/D camera/2nd unit camera.
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  10. #10  
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    Very much looking forward to this camera :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    You won't be seeing DSMC3 until at least the END of next year... so you will be waiting for a while if you want to wait it out.

    And as per the phone camera comment.... As I said in that post referenced, I am also making a different "specialty" camera but It's not going to be anything like what was shown over by the Hydrogen team. I'm sure some people will make it their A camera for some things, but for most of you here, that will be more likely be a C camera/D camera/2nd unit camera.
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