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  1. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Despite what you may think, in the real world, no professional editor working on the real network show, a feature or a commercial etc would be using RAW images to edit with regardless of the power of their system. That is why the transcoded material is being delivered to the editors by DITs in the professional world.
    In the US, there are very few network shows or features (particularly studio level features) that have editorial files made by the DIT. Most of them have a dailies vendor do that, in part because of the complexity of deliverables for a number of studios, in part to have a "real" colorist looking at the material and massaging it, in part to ensure proper archiving, and in part to get uploads to various vendors done in a reasonable time frame. The situation is different in other parts of the world, but in the US and Canada, that is the general approach.

    And finally, based on your statement, please give me ONE example of Linux based NLE that is alive today? And, no, I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons. No, I mean NLE, that is used to do some real work.
    If you're talking about what we used to call "offline" editing, I agree (although as I recall Lightworks is available on Linux - not that most users of Lightworks are on that platform...). But if you're talking about conform and finishing, I would say that Flame Premium and Resolve both qualify (although admittedly a lot of Resolve seats are on Windows and Mac platforms).
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  2. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Most View Post
    In the US, there are very few network shows or features (particularly studio level features) that have editorial files made by the DIT. Most of them have a dailies vendor do that, in part because of the complexity of deliverables for a number of studios, in part to have a "real" colorist looking at the material and massaging it, in part to ensure proper archiving, and in part to get uploads to various vendors done in a reasonable time frame. The situation is different in other parts of the world, but in the US and Canada, that is the general approach.
    Regardless of where files come from, that doesn't change the fact, that the editing is never done using camera files. That was the gist of my point.



    Quote Originally Posted by M Most View Post
    If you're talking about what we used to call "offline" editing, I agree (although as I recall Lightworks is available on Linux - not that most users of Lightworks are on that platform...). But if you're talking about conform and finishing, I would say that Flame Premium and Resolve both qualify (although admittedly a lot of Resolve seats are on Windows and Mac platforms).
    No Mike.
    I was responding to this statement :
    Microsoft didn't go bankrupt and many NLE's that didn't support ProRes encoding under microsoft windows or linux for the last 12 years are still alive"
    As you can imagine, I'm perfectly aware of Flame. Misha was specifically talking about NLE, which Flame really isn't. If you consider Flame an editor, then Nuke Studio should be included as well. And Baselight along with Mistika. Well, you see my point.
    Also, I'm not aware of any editors using Linux Resolve for NLE-style editing. Do you?
    And I specifically mentioned in my post "I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons" which would cover Lightworks as well.
    The bottom line, NLE on Linux, for all practical purposes, doesn't exist.
    And all this still doesn't change the fact, that Resolve doesn't support ProresRAW:)
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  3. #63  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Despite what you may think, in the real world, no professional editor working on the real network show, a feature or a commercial etc would be using RAW images to edit with regardless of the power of their system. That is why the transcoded material is being delivered to the editors by DITs in the professional world.
    Sure why would you use 16 bits when you can also use backed in colors upto 12 bits when color correction, who cares about color.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    So, stop with this Puget Systems nonsense, it has no bearings on anything. I don't care what Adobe did to Apple or why Apple allowed Adobe to write Prores on Windows, the true fact of the matter, as of now, Resolve is the ONLY software platform that is not allowed to write Prores on Windows. All the rest, at least all color grading/editing/VFX Windows-based apps can write Prores- Digital Vision, Mistika, Assimialate, MTI, Colorfront, Adobe and many others.
    Yep, BMD, AVID, VEGAS, Lightworks, and many others don't.
    It's Apples choice to ask money for ProRes where DNx and Cineform are free to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    You keep moving goal posts and then you asking why that happened, when you decided to bring in R3D, ARRIRAW and OCN. Or it wasn't you?
    It was about the RAW codecs. You know, 12 bits ProResRAW supported by the big brand camera's used in H/N/Bollywood productions vs. consumer grade 16 bits R3D, ARRIRAW, X-OCN for wedding capturing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    The bottom line, anyone considering sticking with Resolve may want to look at the possibility, that Resolve may well be the only platform, that may not be able to write Prores on Windows and even more importantly, not being able to read and write ProresRAW on any of their platforms.
    Adobe did it 12 years without encoding ProRes on Windows and only implemented in 2019. AVID is still not encoding to ProRes.
    Yes I know that ProResRAW is the main RAW codec supported by the big brand camera's used in H/N/Bollywood productions, how could ARRI, RED and Sony(pro) have missed it.
    To my knowledge no one is encoding ProResRAW in NLE's, not even Apple's FCPX.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    And finally, based on your statement, please give me ONE example of Linux based NLE that is alive today? And, no, I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons. No, I mean NLE, that is used to do some real work.
    Davinci Resolve and Lightworks.
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  4. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    Davinci Resolve and Lightworks.
    Although it's really, really difficult for me to do this, I'm going to actually have to agree with Jake here. Although Resolve on Linux is used for conforming and finishing, if we're talking about "creative" editing, the vast majority of people using Resolve for that are likely running it on Windows or the Mac. As for Lightworks, I would say the same caveat would apply (nonwithstanding Jake's contention that LW is "an open source thingy", which I don't agree with).

    Now, that said, for me, the term "NLE" does not refer only to offline editing programs. A conform and finishing package, like Flame Premium, or for that matter Resolve, is just as much a non-linear editor as Avid or Premiere Pro are. So depending on your interpretation of the terminology, other views are possible....
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  5. #65  
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    It's funny how easy any discussion can get sidetracked. If anyone wants to edit using Lightworks, Flame or Resolve using RAW files, fine, what do I care? That's not the point of discussion here.
    My original point was and still is, Resolve doesn't support Prores RAW and that CAN become a BIG problem for small indy users, that are depending on Resolve, if Prores RAW goes mainstream like the Prores now. All eyes are on ARRI now. If ARRI decides, that Prores RAW is superior to the good 'ole Prores, well...
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  6. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    AVID is still not encoding to ProRes.
    Would you like to change your answer the same way when you said about Adobe not being able to do it on Windows? :)
    Apple ProRes Authorized Products
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321
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  7. #67  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    To my knowledge no one is encoding ProResRAW in NLE's, not even Apple's FCPX.
    You clearly missing the whole point of ProresRAW.
    So, once more Misha- acquisition codec vs deliverable codec.
    Would you expect any editing platform to export final edit as R3D or ARRIRAW?
    The same thing...
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  8. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Would you like to change your answer the same way when you said about Adobe not being able to do it on Windows? :)
    Apple ProRes Authorized Products
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321
    Well no resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/Avid_Supported_Video_File_Formats.pdf
    It's Mac only just like Davinci Resolve and Adobe until CC2019.

    Also no mention of AVID supporting ProResRAW in anyway.
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  9. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    You clearly missing the whole point of ProresRAW.
    So, once more Misha- acquisition codec vs deliverable codec.
    Would you expect any editing platform to export final edit as R3D or ARRIRAW?
    The same thing...
    No I don't, but you did

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Despite what you may think, in the real world, no professional editor working on the real network show, a feature or a commercial etc would be using RAW images to edit with regardless of the power of their system. That is why the transcoded material is being delivered to the editors by DITs in the professional world. So, stop with this Puget Systems nonsense, it has no bearings on anything. I don't care what Adobe did to Apple or why Apple allowed Adobe to write Prores on Windows, the true fact of the matter, as of now, Resolve is the ONLY software platform that is not allowed to write Prores on Windows. All the rest, at least all color grading/editing/VFX Windows-based apps can write Prores- Digital Vision, Mistika, Assimialate, MTI, Colorfront, Adobe and many others.
    You keep moving goal posts and then you asking why that happened, when you decided to bring in R3D, ARRIRAW and OCN. Or it wasn't you?
    The bottom line, anyone considering sticking with Resolve may want to look at the possibility, that Resolve may well be the only platform, that may not be able to write Prores on Windows and even more importantly, not being able to read and write ProresRAW on any of their platforms.
    And finally, based on your statement, please give me ONE example of Linux based NLE that is alive today? And, no, I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons. No, I mean NLE, that is used to do some real work.
    The non distructive editing in RAW and export to something else(DPX, EXR, DNx, Cineform, etc..) is a nice feature of Resolve and probable more NLE's.
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  10. #70  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    It's funny how easy any discussion can get sidetracked. If anyone wants to edit using Lightworks, Flame or Resolve using RAW files, fine, what do I care? That's not the point of discussion here.
    My original point was and still is, Resolve doesn't support Prores RAW and that CAN become a BIG problem for small indy users, that are depending on Resolve
    Isn't that valid for any codec not supported by an NLE.
    FCPX is famous for not supporting codecs (DNx, ARRIRAW, X-OCN, BRAW) and they are still around.

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    , if Prores RAW goes mainstream like the Prores now. All eyes are on ARRI now. If ARRI decides, that Prores RAW is superior to the good 'ole Prores, well...
    With your type of workflow people can't edit RAW, so they first have to transcode ProResRAW to ProRes(something) before they can start editing.
    I really don't see the benefit of 12 bits ProResRAW through an external recorder over 16 bits ARRIRAW with CFast or Codex.
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