Cineform v Red Raw Comparison Shots?

[Joe G.]

Please use this thread to post side by side screen shots and/or footage of the same material in Red and in Cineform. I would like to compare quality.

[Obin Olson]

so would I...David?

[David Newman]

There is little point in the comparison, as the source will always be Redcode. If the Rawport wasn't discontinued, then the comparison would have been possible. While CineForm RAW can be applied to ARRI, Dalsa, Phantom or SI footage, different cameras and therefore different results. For Red foootage, CineForm is an online post and DI format, just as we are for every other compression or non-compressed camera source. CineForm 444 as DI is quality visually equivalent to posting with DPX files, just 4 to 7 times smaller files. We look forward to implementing the Redcode SDK, allowing easier conversion of Red media into the CineForm workflow.

[Edgar Pitts]

Hi David. Will Redcode to Cineform RAW be a viable workflow? Thanks.

Edgar

[David Newman]

Yes and sort-of. Initially we understand that the Redcode SDK will not support RAW exports, so we will primarily be do 4:4:4 CineForm encodes until the SDK supports RAW (faster transcodes to small file sizes.)

[Tom Lowe]

so we will primarily be do 4:4:4 CineForm encodes until the SDK supports RAW (faster transcodes to small file sizes.)

David, how does this compare to the news that R3D files will be handled "natively" by Premiere Pro CS3 now? I still don't understand how that is going to work. Does that mean RAW-style CCing can be done in Premiere Pro or AE, or will the RAW color and exposure settings have to be done at some earlier stage?

Any ideas on how the RED/Adobe workflow without Cineform will work compared to with Cineform, now that Adobe is apparently supporting RED? I understand you cannot be completely objective, but still, I thought I would ask, since you know more about this stuff than most anyone here.

[David Newman]

Native support has no impact on us, if anything is helps a little (saving us some work.) Remember most of the cameras we support have a native Adobe mode, users simply choose a CineForm workflow for a better experience. We will have a compelling workflow, but there is no point discussing the details when none for the components involved are out yet.

[Michael Thornton]

There is little point in the comparison, as the source will always be Redcode. If the Rawport wasn't discontinued, then the comparison would have been possible. While CineForm RAW can be applied to ARRI, Dalsa, Phantom or SI footage, different cameras and therefore different results. For Red foootage, CineForm is an online post and DI format, just as we are for every other compression or non-compressed camera source. CineForm 444 as DI is quality visually equivalent to posting with DPX files, just 4 to 7 times smaller files. We look forward to implementing the Redcode SDK, allowing easier conversion of Red media into the CineForm workflow.
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David Newman
CTO, CineForm

Thank for shot of truth.

Much appreciated.

Files size 4-7 time smaller?

What is the ETA on a beta?

Thanks

Tek

[Andrew M.]

I was always thinking about CineForm as a proxy file to the original RAW whatever it comes from.

Kind of like the QT proxy file on RED that is saved together with the RED RAW file when you finish the clip.

The only difference is that CineForm is fatter proxy allowing you to play real time right from the CineForm file without necessity of converting it to the QT but rather converting it to the CIneForm.

Is that right or I am getting confused here?

I would love to have CIneForm proxies created at the end of the clip on RED during the “POST” instead of QT proxies.

It looks like Apple converted itself right now to Apple Mobile and theirs focus is there, so counting on Apple to be serious right now about non profitable segment of theirs business it is bit unrealistic.

[David Newman]

Tek,

4-7 times smaller than DPX (so there is no confusion.) 4K CineForm files are typically a little bigger than R3D source files.

Beta? CineForm Prospect 4K and NEO 4K have been out for a while, from DPX sources you can start using these products now. If you asking for R3D support we looking forward to receiving the SDK just like all other vendors.