Thread: Epic W Helium vs Epic W Gemini Purchase

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  1. #21  
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    im contemplating this buy right now as well. not sure if I should go helium or gemini. From the stuff ive seen, right out of camera the Gemini has more pleasing colors. is this true or am I imagining it?
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kushner View Post
    I have a Gemini and I find it can be really noisy as compared to an older, Epic X that I own. I don't have a Helium...but if you don't need a low light setting and are not planning to shoot mostly high speed in 4K or smaller, then I think Helium or Dragon would be a better fit for you. Too bad Helium won't shoot 120 frames with the full sensor and downsample in camera to 4K. That is what kept me from buying Helium. I don't want to cut my lenses angle of view in half just to shoot high speed...but I think you would like the picture better than Gemini if you want it clean with less noise.
    I hear this a lot and I'm always curious what they are shooting high speed that needs the shallower dof of the larger sensor area? For instance Epic-W (max 30FPS at 8K) has the exact same fame rates as the Helium (which does max 60FPS at 8K) at 6K and less and since the 8K Helium sensor is something like 20% bigger than S35 at 8K (sensor is the same in both cameras) it is only a bit smaller than S35 in 6K. Seems to me most things that one would shoot at higher frame rates would benefit for slightly more depth of field to help with focusing - and again the difference is fairly small.

    Seems like 120FPS would be more for nature where you normally need the greater dof, or something like explosions and such in a feature where you aren't likely to be trying to achieve shallow DOF.

    So what are the situations where 120FPS rates are needed with significantly shallower depth of field than can be achieved with a helium sensor?
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  3. #23  
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    As a current Raven owner I'm soon going upgrade to either Gemini or Helium but I can't decide.

    My most used lenses will be Sigma Cine 18-35 mm and Altas Orion Anamorphic 40mm

    The more I research the harder it gets .... so ... anyone else had a tought time choosing direction here ... and which way did you go ... and why ?
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  4. #24  
    I've had both. There's lots to love about both and I think you should decide based on what you need from a camera, is it the additional resolution and sharpness of helium or the low light and slightly better DR of Gemini? Re lenses, Atlas looks great on Gemini with extra sensor height, but the sigma vignettes on both sensors at max res, not as big a deal on helium where you can crop in slightly to eliminate the vignette and still have a lot of resolution to play with.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Aaron Green's Avatar
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    I’ve rented both on several occasions and i would recommend the Gemini. One of the most underrated characteristics is its sensor size. It’s between full frame and super 35. Dual ISO is also lovely (of course).
    Aaron Green - Chicago, IL
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Green View Post
    Ive rented both on several occasions and i would recommend the Gemini. One of the most underrated characteristics is its sensor size. Its between full frame and super 35. Dual ISO is also lovely (of course).
    Helium is also between full frame and super 35/. 29.90 mm x 15.77 mm (Diag: 33.80 mm) 1.89 ratio

    Gemini. 30.72 mm x 18 mm (Diagonal: 35.61 mm). 1.70 ratio

    Helium aspect (1.89 ratio vs 1.70 ratio) probably more useful for non-anamorphic shooting?

    World is moving rapidly toward 8K - just sayin'.
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  7. #27  
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    Just purchased Gemini and I am extremely happy. There are times I wish I had more resolution to punch and to give my landscapes/wides just a bit more pop but in terms of skin-tones, lowlight performance, and just overall cleanliness (feel) of the Gemini sensor is superb. I absolutely love the skin-tones of this camera and think it is one of the cleaner images red has produced to date. If you have a lot of lighting, grip/team, and very powerful computer for editting go helium for the increased resolution. If you are part of a smaller team, more run-and-gun, and shooting in not as many "set-up" scenarios go gemini. Both are awesome cameras that can be made out to look almost identical. Buy the camera for YOUR NEEDS not for everyone else's.
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  8. #28  
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    Thanks great info ... I have a powerful machine - > https://www.instagram.com/p/BWckFNNgAMv/ your input makes it even harder on what direction to go :)


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Reese View Post
    Just purchased Gemini and I am extremely happy. There are times I wish I had more resolution to punch and to give my landscapes/wides just a bit more pop but in terms of skin-tones, lowlight performance, and just overall cleanliness (feel) of the Gemini sensor is superb. I absolutely love the skin-tones of this camera and think it is one of the cleaner images red has produced to date. If you have a lot of lighting, grip/team, and very powerful computer for editting go helium for the increased resolution. If you are part of a smaller team, more run-and-gun, and shooting in not as many "set-up" scenarios go gemini. Both are awesome cameras that can be made out to look almost identical. Buy the camera for YOUR NEEDS not for everyone else's.
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  9. #29  
    Senior Member Michael Epple's Avatar
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    For me, Gemini was a no brainer. It is more versatile in every way, 4 perf sensor height, low light, higher frame rates at bigger sensor size, less overheating due to lower data rates. Unless you REALLY want to crop in on your sensor to utilize the reframing options of Helium, there is no reason to get it over the Gemini. I still use Arri all the time and crop in on some shots and they have much lower resolution. They are also still the go to digital camera of the best DPs in the world. And yes, I own a red and really like the Gemini. Just because there are 8k screens out there doesn't mean that everything has to be shot 8K.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Gemini is the closest Red gets to an Alexa in terms of photosite size and a 4:3 sensor.
    "Using any digital cinema camera today is like sending your 35mm rolls to a standard lab. -Using a Red is like owning a dark room."
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