11th hour and I gotta know...

[JonBaade]

I'm about to go into production for a series of spots. My goal is to use the Red One (instead of shooting traditional 35mm film). Here is my problem...and I hope that someone can help me find the solution.

We have an Avid Media Composer (running on PC) with an Adrenaline box with the DNXcel board in it. We want to shoot on the RED, bring it into the AVID and do the full HD online there (like we do with all of our other HD projects).

Has anyone figured out an online HD Avid workflow?

I've tried converting the Red files using RedRushes and either get low res quality or I get files that are not compatible with PC (the ApplePro res is great, but we're not using FCP OR editing on the Mac). When I try to convert to DNxHD from RedCine I get noise. The other options prove to be too low quality (or WAY to large to deal with).

Am I missing something really obvious? Has anyone found a PC Avid Media Composer solution? Anyone? I really want to use the Red for this project but if there is no way we can reasonably online it, I can't.

Thanks for all your help.

Jon

[Bruce Allen]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16957

Email MichaelP and you'll get a pack of info.

Avid / PC support is a work in progress because RED prioritized FCP and Mac for the last few years and is only now allowing access for other workflows. Silly, I know ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Stuart English]

One year Bruce, we started shipping cameras in Sept 2007. I know, time flies :matrix:

[Bruce Allen]

You mean you didn't start on the Mac / FCP workflow before that?

EDIT: I'd think that RED prioritized Mac / FCP the moment you hired folks like Graeme (who wrote plugins that worked exclusivly on Final Cut Pro and Color) and Ted, who, being high up at AJA, hobviously had a strong Apple relationship.

The moment RED hired those guys, they knew Apple would "take their call"... to characterize it as "we reached out equally to everyone, only Apple responded" is to only tell half the story.

Again, I have no problem with that and think that Graeme and Ted are great guys. But to outside observers the plan was to prioritize Apple from day 1, as evidenced by the hiring decisions.

Also, there is obviously the a great overlap between FCP users and potential Red customers, so it makes great business sense too.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Deanan]

The real story: Apple and Assimilate were interested in spending a tremendous about of time to an unproven camera with guaranteed changes every few weeks. Not a single other company stepped up to the plate until much much later and many continued to say we were a joke even after we showed working cameras.

Our relationship with Avid developed much later as a result of new management at Avid and Michael Phillips' help (thanks Michael!).

[Wayne D]

how much footage are you shooting?

i justed bypased all offline and put everything into the AVID at HD res.
hard drive space is getting cheaper these days so if you can expand you system the maybe that is an option for you.

BTW i am also running on WINDOWS with my AVID.

[Jay A. Kelley]

The real story: Apple and Assimilate were interested in spending a tremendous about of time to an unproven camera with guaranteed changes every few weeks. Not a single other company stepped up to the plate until much much later and many continued to say we were a joke even after we showed working cameras.

Our relationship with Avid developed much later as a result of new management at Avid and Michael Phillips' help (thanks Michael!).

With all respect Deanan... I have not seen much from your relationship with Apple.. They may have taken your call, and they posted some nice material on their site 2 years ago... But aside from that, it looks like you were involved in more of a "one night stand".

Still, the acceptance from Apple at that time was sorely needed and worth its weight in gold.

Jay

Perhaps there's more going on than I see

[Michael Lindsay]

Has anyone figured out an online HD Avid workflow?

I'm in RED/AVID pain at the moment.

Your timescale is important!! If the job is today:

1. consider another camera

2. use FCP

3. Buy or hire scratch

4. learn to love eye matching and a process that makes 35mm look quick

If you want to keep things simple, and can aford the drive space, and not do a PULL for the final online you should just render everything to DPX and use metafuze to creat MXF files and a ALE for your MC.

One of the big problems with Avid is that you can't get 10bit files into it.. This means you HAVE to get close to the look you want BEFORE going into Avid. Avid will not retain 10bit data from a 10bit quicktime nor will it create a 10bit MXF file with metafuze.

The above problem partly defeats the point of shooting with Red. A well exposed red file can allow for great grading options.

I was really hoping by now that we could:

render DNX 36 from Redcine (with apropriate first light correction)
MC editorial
Avid-redcine xml
Pull all the shots you want from within the Redcine project that produced the ofline files (therfore retaining the first light look)
Tweak the setting to push things a little closer to what is needed
Render 10bit files (DNX uncompressed)
Finish in Symphony


good luck

Michael

PS I'm hoping MichaelP is capable of a quick miracle.

[JonBaade]

how much footage are you shooting?

i justed bypased all offline and put everything into the AVID at HD res.
hard drive space is getting cheaper these days so if you can expand you system the maybe that is an option for you.

BTW i am also running on WINDOWS with my AVID.

Ok...I'm good with that. I can't get the r3d files into the Avid directly (obviously) and I can't get it (RedCine or RedRushes) to render out DNxHD files...what do you use as an intermediary? Or am I missing something painfully obvious. Did you go through DPX sequences?

Jon

[David Battistella]

With all respect Deanan... I have not seen much from your relationship with Apple.. They may have taken your call, and they posted some nice material on their site 2 years ago... But aside from that, it looks like you were involved in more of a "one night stand".

Still, the acceptance from Apple at that time was sorely needed and worth its weight in gold.

Jay

Perhaps there's more going on than I see

Jay,
I amnot speaking for Deanan, but I am thinking his point was that at that time being first not only mattered but it counted for a lot. I think that seeing the log and transfer integration and the speed with which QT issues are being resolved Apple's help has probably been bigger than we have been able to see.

By the time we see r3d support in COLOR FCStudio will be a pretty powerful RED Bundle.

Peace.

David