Thread: Any Truth To This: Red + Foxconn = Low Cost Professional Cameras For The Masses ??

Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 168
  1. #91  
    Senior Member Zeb B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    In The Moment
    Posts
    4,935
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Nothing against Clark's model as stock is an entire industry, but.....

    I've never shot stock in my life. Got a whole damn thing about that. Won't ever either.
    Heard you were shooting stuff for Apple etc for screen savers or something like that. Totally 3rd hand rumor stuff. Also saw several 8K projects over the last couple years that didn't seem to have a client stated. Thought you were just getting a head start on the 8K world of tradeshow graphics and general content for display manufacturers etc like Clark was. Bunch of assumptions then. My bad
    -Zeb
    FAA 333 Drone Ace
    6K Drone Worldwide
    Underwater Shooter
    RED in Hawaii w/Operator
    www.Stock8K.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #92  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb B View Post
    Please let us know where that line to the "high-end segment" begins:

    1. Raven
    2. Scarlet
    3. Dragon
    4. Epic-W
    5. Weapon Dragon
    6. Weapon Helium
    7. Weapon VV
    8: Panavision DXL

    Not trying to be cute but I think that it's going to be impossible to be a true market disrupter and while maintaining the status quo with the DSMC concept going forward. Hard choices are going have to be made, like Apple made to become a mass market company instead continuing with a very narrow piece of the pie. Whatever happens with this inflection point in RED's path, I just hope they continue to support through firmware updates their existing product line that was purchased on faith.
    1.Raven

    The Chinese supermarket's berwvere I lived knew how to do it. They would charge a price the competition couldn't afford to start up at, and they presumably relief on volumetric name profit.

    I hear a lot of people talking, who don't know things related to this.

    As long as you charge more for less in done markets, you are vunerable to competition. The competition merely has to give more for less instead of take more for less. This is how Red started and got market penertration.

    8k is kids stuff. $1000 stuff. $2000 raw. $3000+ quality. This is what we are heading towards. All they need toroid redefine the high end and offer more at those old prices, and bring in more at the low end to undercut the overchargers. The over chargers want to charge more for low end products, and a lot more for high end products. Si, what Red may pjab fur $60k they may want to charge $240k. What Red may wants to sell for $6k they may want to sell for $10k-$20k, and what Red may want to sell for $2k they want to sell for $10k-$20k, and pocket as much of the difference as they can. Except they can't if Red dies this, and those companies are top heavy, with profitable lines also propping up losses elsewhere. There bloat probably costs them multiple of Red's costs, but maybe they are onto that largely.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #93  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,157
    Blow it, I missed a few quotes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb B View Post
    Imma thinking Eric has a balanced view of things
    Yes, he can Zeb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    People used to do that to me nearly ALL THE TIME HERE, it used to drive me NUTS, the little TROLLS. Lol! Thankfully I missed this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    I went several times to the Paul Allen "Start Up" exhibit*, and at the end it says something like "If you want to predict the future then be the one that makes the future..." ...

    I say if you want to predict the future then pick the most ironic outcome that you can possibly think off.

    I believe (I'm not in the loop) that originally that some if not a lot of the RED sensors are made in Taiwan and possibly by said semiconductor factory formerly owned by Sharp and now having been acquired by Foxconn (in 2016). A lot of the front end ASIC processors and other bits and pieces are made by Foxconn that go into RED cameras.

    Taiwan obviously is very different from PRC, but politically from the Chinese perspective Taiwan is "China" but going against that idea seems to trigger the high priority directive to acquire Taiwan (eventually). Taiwan does great things.

    I'm impressed as hell that Jim Jannard and Jarred Land and Team RED were able to make Terry Gou and Foxconn an offer and a deal (if that's true?????), that was more attractive than what's going down with Apple these days (it seems). The RED name and Chinese New Year all seem very auspicious. Also I think there is certain amount of prestige for working with RED. Chinese production companies are an increasingly important component of international collaborative movie projects "Ghost in the Sell 2017" comes to mind.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

    *Paul Allen took the Start Up exhibit lock stock and barrel out of its Albuquerque New Mexico (Natural History Museum location). I guess he thought those tumble weed chasing atom smashing breaking badders didn't deserve it anymore... It's a really great exhibit for the history of personal computing wherever it is now (I'm guessing somewhere in Seattle lol/not far from Space Needle?).
    I'm pretty convinced it is based on Aptina technology among others. I forget the name of who bought Aptina, but they bought the Kodak sensor and cypress (who I think had the smalmicro sensor business that has that HDR/UDR sensor technology I sometimes mention, which makes for some super BM pocket like frames with HDR. I think lso fill factory). Would be interesting to find out who their shareholders are, and shareholders of the chain of holding companies, to see where that ends up.

    They have mentioned having two of their own ovens. So, if the above company operates out of the US, I imagine they are there, but if oversease they could even end up in the same plant. It could be that Red could use Sharps old lines to make cheap sensors. But the issue is that formulation that brings sensors advanced characteristics can = equipment. So another location might have to be refitted at tremendous cost to reproduce the same sensor formular. This means very high runs to pay for, which just might indicate selling sensors to the mass market.

    You will notice how I have commented over the years about the commonality of the look of the Red image since second or third sensor generation with the Sony image. But there is also commonality with Aptina images (see BM microstudio images, and the older Sony rx100's with similar Aptina chip). See, after the law suites went, there was a cross licensing deal between Aptina and Sony, making Aptina hotter property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb B View Post
    You do love to argue . . . does it ever satisfy?
    Lol! You have only JUST noticed that Zeb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Skinner View Post
    Iím not a fan of this kind of trolling, but there is such an obvious answer here I had to speak up. The one thing that all the existing Red workflows have in common is PL glass (with the exception of the Raven). Red could easily drop the PL mount, drop the price, and there would still be a market for the old models. This is exactly what they did with the Raven.

    Now letís take it a step further. If you are trying to reduce the overall size of the camera, why would you even keep the EF Mount? Couldnít you revolutionize low end video production with a new mount, glass to go with it, and STILL keep the folks with PL glass coming back for more $80K cameras? The answer is yes, yes we would all continue to pay $80K per body if that mount did not exist on the smaller, cheaper, revolutionary camera.

    Now letís go even one step further. Why even allow the small camera to have a detachable lens? You can reduce size, get customers on a planned obsolescence treadmill, and even more clearly separate the cheaper camera from the existing Red line.

    The key point here is that cinema camera manufacturers earn $0 in revenue from your glass purchases. Do you think that has gone unnoticed? Having a system that allows total flexibility in terms of lens selection is extremely valuable to you, the DP. Not to Red. When Red starts making phones why in the world would they carry over that cinema notion to their consumer products? They wonít. Some version of ďyou donít get to use your PL glassĒ will end up in the product, protecting the existing product line.
    Jim, is that you?
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #94  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb B View Post
    So what. The Article is not the official RED word and could be complete bullshit. I do know that RED has been trying to make a mass market camera since before Epic. Remember Scarlet 1.0? That fixed lens 2/3 sensor amazing cam . . . that was derailed by the 5DII? Now RED finally has the engineering / production means with Foxconn to bring 8K$8K to market. My point is, if they succeed in doing that, it will obsolete the current middle market cameras and drop the premium that can be charged for 8K footage from oversupply. Thatís all
    I think maybe because it was so terrible in low light against Canon's original digital cinema camera of the time. But allegedly because the 20x zoom lens wasn't right. I would not have minded if they made it a little longer to get it right. But there you go. It should have been 4k anyway, even if M4/3rds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Kanes View Post
    What $ Premium for 8K footage ?

    ďNo oneĒ wants 8K right now.

    My Monstro hasnít rented once (except when I want to use it on a job.)

    Naturally this will change - but there is ZERO rental advantage today in Los Angeles to have a Helium or Monstro over any other camera that Iím able to Perceive of at all.

    Period.

    Now, things change, they can, will and Do change.

    Right now in my (little) world thereís very little (factually near zero as of today) economic advantage to owning as an operator or renting out as an individual any of the 8K camera options.

    If youíre a good camera person youíll get called to shoot something. Otherwise itís a world of lowest common cost for an owner operator to flop around at the behest of someone who knows even less about the factualities of the world as it used to exist or currently does.

    The reality is, this is a very early shot off the Bow, and may be a potential direct hit to the starboard side of other dominant, primarily Japanese based camera Manufacturers. Really depends though. These are just smoke signals of impending product cycle collapse and expansion.
    Exactly right Dan, I was going to bring it up. Why mention this at all. Ussually you will not mention until the deal is done, or maybe final stages. This is like a smoke signal to someone.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb B View Post
    Would you like fresh ground pepper with that word salad?
    Sprinkled with a touch of troll.

    Let's see how long the provoking urge will last.
    Analog > Apollo wooden handgrip http://omeneo.com
    Digital > Primers - professional image transformation tools http://omeneo.com/primers

    imdb


    "Como delfines en el fondo del oceano
    volamos por el universo incentivados por la esperanza"

    "L'esperanza", Sven Všth
    "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards"
    Jung/ Carol
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #96  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,157


    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #97  
    Moderator Martin Weiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Switzerland/Norway/Germany
    Posts
    6,156
    Ehem. Time to behave like grown ups again.

    Thanks.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #98  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,157
    But there are so many great images in that troll search, and such fun watching these guys.

    But why when I put in troll barbeque in quotes it keeps coming up with images of Hillary Clinton, and it a single cartoon image of somebody else? And without quotes Thor cartoons keep coming up.

    A pity, I was looking forwards to my troll joke where I ask why it's returning these images, and put up an image of Hillary up, along side the Thir cartoon, and after put the Chris Hemsworth one asking if Hilary got a change and went back in time to become Chris Hemsworth!

    Phil's been here.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #99  
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini View Post


    Hey Wayne, it is me. Come by Twitter some time!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #100  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,157
    Sorry Jim. I was joking that you could be Big Jim, lurking around with us. I have poblems with names, but the name Skinner sounds familiar, do I know you Jim?

    I was going to take down those cartoons soon anyway. Doesn't seem Zeb and Hvroje have much of a sense of humour.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts